Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

[dbm]

Originally Posted by Proteus

I'm not definitive, but between Dungeon Fantasy on the Cheap and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 15: Henchmen it shouldn't be much of a challenge to adapt. I suspect it's also straightforward to use singletons or pairs of monsters rather than crowds of them, etc.

I agree it's fairly straightforward, I just wanted to know if the questioner would need other supplements :)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Well, too bad, but inventory costs being what they are, it's understandable.

Its not just inventory costs but it would distract from the stated mission of the kickstarter.
Scope creep on a project like this can be a killer and for more reasons then just cost overruns.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Thank you. That needed to be said.

At this point it really didn't.

Many, many, many pages ago Kromm stated exactly where the DF line came from, it's his nostalgia project for the games he played back in the day. The cheesy over-the-top beer and pretzels games.

That is what the entire DF line was meant to emulate. This product takes the DF line (which is the upper bounds between beer and pretzels gaming and "very serious roleplaying"*) and further streamlines it to get it even more in line with his original proposal.

But, all that said, the DF line isn't very difficult to to retrofit into the serious mold. I haven't seen PbG:DF yet to know how much work it would be to bring it back from Monty Haul/Python Land, but I suspect it won't be that hard.



* Not offerred as a slight, I vastly prefer serious roleplaying to Orc and Pie.

The implication is also that streamlining rules and making content more accessible means giving up part of the essence of RPG's. You can no longer make the game your own because it won't allow you to get much more sophisticated than Munchkin.

I don't think Dr Kromm or Reverend Pee-Kitty will be at your door demanding you put the rules back if you just the social ads, skills, and other rules back into your DF games.

I know they haven't braved my moat and crenelated walls yet.

Originally Posted by philreed

Understood. Still, we currently have no plans to offer extras of the sheets.

What about offering them as PDFs?


As I'll probably be scanning and printing my copy of the Cardboard Heroes and never cutting them... just as I did with the first set of CBHs I bought 25 years ago. And if there are PDFs of the new DF CDHs, I'd probably buy them as, well, that's just easier than trying to figure out how these durn new fangled scanner/printers work.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

To be blunt, you're beginning to sound like you're too picky to be worth pursuing as a potential customer.

That sounds a bit harsh.
I just finished checking the entire thread for his posts.
He complained and wanted PDF options since he plays online. Resolved and I think a significant number of people wanted PDFs, even if they were also getting the boxed set (I'm one of them).
He replied to another comment on armor weights and said it would be interesting to see how compatible it is with the rest of GURPS.
And here he expressed a desire for a bit more then just DF hack and slash.

I would have said something like "Maybe this product isnt right for you then".
There are some people (especially on the kickstarter page) asking for unreasonable things and as one with lots of customer service experience I feel the pain in dealing with those but frustration with that (and he kicked your favorite project) doesn't warrant the "too picky" comment IMHO.

[HunterS]

Lets keep the comments focused on the Dungeon Fantasy Kickstarter.

New players and customers are being directed to this thread as an example of our community and for answers to complex questions; show them that this is a good community.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

But, all that said, the DF line isn't very difficult to to retrofit into the serious mold. I haven't seen PbG:DF yet to know how much work it would be to bring it back from Monty Haul/Python Land, but I suspect it won't be that hard.

* Not offerred as a slight, I vastly prefer serious roleplaying to Orc and Pie.


I don't think Dr Kromm or Reverend Pee-Kitty will be at your door demanding you put the rules back if you just the social ads, skills, and other rules back into your DF games.

This does I think need to be said though.
Your absolutely right, Powered by GURPS means it uses the same concepts so adding stuff like social activities, Dungeon Saints, etc should be pretty simple and not like adapting a completely different system.

As for cardboard heroes adding another set to the box for select people would obviously be cost prohibitive. Think about setting aside and opening then sealing selected boxes. But adding them as a separate item in the same mailing might work, depending on shipping weights.
However it detracts from the mission which is not to see the interest in cardboard heroes but to gauge interest in printed GURPS stuff. They are giving us 3 separate items this year to test the market for it.

Of course GURPS Discworld, GURPS Mars Attacks and Dungeon Fantasy Powered by GURPS wont appeal to all GURPS players. But it should be a decent sampling.
The existing addons for Pyramid and already published PDFs, are actually a problem here as they skew the numbers.
But if they stick with stuff already made pose no risk to cost or time overruns and making them explicitly as addons lets them parse the data so the numbers shouldn't be too far off when seeing how many wanted a printed copy. And though those addons dont add full value to the money available for a printed copy they can be factored out as advertising. And generate some additional profit.
People like me who went all in even though I have a dozen or so DF books are contributing to that profit andI'm still getting value from the Pyramid discount and PDFs I havent bought.
So its a win win

[Refplace]

Ok, I have a suggestion.
Some people want a setting. This set already has an Inn (adventure starts there) so why not make a town? It harkens back to the orignal greyhawk phamplet or Keep on the Borderlands so fits the idea better then a full blown setting.
Those who want a full blown setting can of course make thier own, use one of the existing GURPS fantasy settings (Banestorm/Yrth, GURPS Castle Falkenstein, GURPS Conan, or Madlands) or adapt one.

Of course Kromm may already have built a town into the adventure so this could be moot. But if he did saying so would offset some of the comments or requests I have seen. It goes against the idea of keeping the stretch goals so they only reduce shipping and it might add too much weight to the box.
Also someone would have to build the town, so thiers additional editing and time.
But a simple town done with a streamlined City Stats (ie just the explanations of whats there, skip the rest) a map and some key NPCs is something that should be able to be done quickly and not delay the product launch.

But as a stretch goal I think it adds value. Even if the goal is not met it can be done later, and by some of our freelancers. I would buy it sight unseen if Matt Rigsby wrote it. (Others too he just is the name that jumps at me for this project).
It could be DF: Location Town by the Dungeon <g>.
I think would be worth doing even as a standalone PDF and could be added to later. But making it known as an option on the kickstarter page might be a good idea.
If not, well at least I made the suggestion.

[ericthered]

Which I think means that this will fund, but it will be close. You get spikes at the beginning and at the end.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Refplace

It goes against the idea of keeping the stretch goals so they only reduce shipping and it might add too much weight to the box.
Also someone would have to build the town, so thiers additional editing and time.

We have no plans to deviate from our outline for the project, and we definitely do not want to add new content that puts on-time delivery at risk.

If the game breaks the first stretch goal then we will reveal more. We've already got all of the stretch goals mapped out, and the numbers crunched on each to make 100% sure we don't collapse the project or drive ourselves into the red.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by philreed

We have no plans to deviate from our outline for the project, and we definitely do not want to add new content that puts on-time delivery at risk.

If the game breaks the first stretch goal then we will reveal more. We've already got all of the stretch goals mapped out, and the numbers crunched on each to make 100% sure we don't collapse the project or drive ourselves into the red.

I respect that.
The idea occurred to me when reading some responses and since I hadn't seen it before wanted to share. Settings dont have to be complicated or fully fleshed out worlds. I dont know why a Locations item like a DF town never occurred to me as an answer to setting requests before.