Economics of beekeeping

[Willy]

Late to the Thread, has anyone still mentioned the medical use of honey?

It had a couple of uses for several conditions before TL 5, and medical honey ist still in use even in modern hospitals, in fact there has been a revival of a lot of abandoned old methods discarded when antibiotics came up.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Two price points for honey I found with a bit of online searching were 50 denarii per pound from The Edict of Diocletian on Maximum Prices from 301 CE Rome (there are other goods there you could compare to, like wheat or cattle) and around 0.6 pence per pound from 1350's England. For example, the Diocletian numbers have a cow at 2000 denarii; LTC2 has a cow at 1200 $G, implying $30 per pound of honey (and $600 per harvested hive, from the honey); I'm finding a cow costing around 72d (which I assume means 72 pence) in 1350's England, implying around $10 per pound of honey (and $200 per harvested hive). I think honey wholesold for around $1.50 per pound in 2004 while beeswax was maybe around $3.00 per pound wholesale, so whatever price you put on honey, you could do worse than doubling it for beeswax - but then again, modern beekeepers don't get as much beeswax per pound of harvested honey, so you could justify reducing the price on beeswax when destructive harvesting is used (as you get a lot more wax per harvest). I'd probably still be inclined to put its price as twice that of honey, simply because you get half as much wax per harvest as honey (so you can just double the values above to figure out how much you get per hive between the honey and the wax).

Depends on just what the land is being used for. Land used to pasture livestock is likely to allow for overlap, particularly if there's a lot of clover or similar wildflowers that bees can get nectar from. Apple orchards are a classic - many apple orchards are also apiaries, selling both apple- and honey-related products, including outright selling apples and honey. But wind-pollinated crops like wheat, rice, and corn you probably can't have overlap with land used for beekeeping, as the bees would be pollinating what would be regarded as weeds - although I think years when allowing the field to lie fallow you could use for beekeeping (maybe have the bees located at the intersection of several fields so they can more easily rotate which field they're sourcing their nectar from).

Extremely useful answers, thank you!

(I still need to look at that AtE farming thread though...)

[hal]

In my years of reading, I've come across two different references regarding the use of Honey with wounds.

Prince Hal suffered an arrow wound that hit the right side of his face (downward plunging arrow) whose head embedded itself in his skull. The resulting treatment of his wound earned its Doctor, a yearly income of 10 Marks (2/3rds of a Pound). One of the key ingredients was the use of Honey.

https://www.medievalists.net/2013/05...se-and-effect/

For those familiar with PHILLIP MCGREGOR's work, I can only steer you towards this:

Real Medieval Issue 2

In it - you will find

MATERIA MEDICA -- ANCIENT & MEDIEVAL MEDICINE

I find much of his material is worth picking up, including the earlier materials.

Unfortunately, the HARN Forums no longer have the material on beekeepers from back in the day. I'll have to go hard drive diving to see if I can find the thread on bee keepers (probably not darn it). I will see if I can find mention of it elsewhere...

Clarification: A Mark is 2/3rds of a pound or 160 silver pennies. So 3 Marks is equal to 2 Pounds. The man was paid a total of 1,600 silver pennies per year.

Also - new link, a PDF discussing honey availability and pricing per gallon:

https://www.naturaleater.com/science...rial-diets.pdf

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by hal

Also - new link, a PDF discussing honey availability and pricing per gallon:

https://www.naturaleater.com/science...rial-diets.pdf

I probably should have linked that, but it is indeed where I got my 0.6 pence per pound figure - the article notes honey was 7 pence per gallon or 1.3 pence per kg; with 2.2 lb per kg, that works out to 0.59 pence per lb, which I rounded up to 0.6. At first I thought this was some sort of outlier, as it seemed far too cheap, but when I did the price comparison using a cow, it's only 1/3rd of what it cost in Rome, which seems within reason.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

It seems to me that medieval/renaissance era European manors probably had a family of dedicated beekeepers among their peasants/serfs who maintained the hive.

Two things not yet mentioned:

1) The Church was heavily into agriculture during the Middle Ages and beekeeping was the perfect industry for monasteries and nunneries. Most monks and nuns were expected to earn their keep while also remaining relatively cloistered. Bees could easily be kept behind nunnery/monastery walls. On top of that, there was the constant need for beeswax candles for religious services. For those reasons, the local bishop might have had a monopoly on beekeeping instead of the local lord.

2) Bees don't just forage on domestic crops. Forests, wild meadows and just about any terrain with flowering plants can support them. I know of several urban beekeepers who keep a hive or two, despite the fact that the nearest agricultural areas are at least 10 miles away. The bees make their living from urban tree blossoms and domestic flowers in older neighborhoods with mature shade tree canopies.

That means that you have to calculate beekeeping economics based on the overall fertility of the land, not just cultivated areas. As long as there's a healthy ecosystem of flowering plants, bees do quite well in areas which don't lend themselves to traditional agriculture (e.g., rocky hills, marshlands).

In some cases, honeys produced from plants which only grow on marginal land (e.g., acacia, heather) are prized for their distinctive flavors.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

In some cases, honeys produced from plants which only grow on marginal land (e.g., acacia, heather) are prized for their distinctive flavors.

Quite so. The first time I saw a wide selection of honey types in a health food store, I called BS, but bought some "blueberry" and some "orange blossom" all the same to try it out. Man was I wrong. If you have a predominant monoculture in the area, that's what flavors the honey. Citrus farms, Maine blueberries, Plymouth cranberries, buckwheat farms, honey from those areas all have notable differences.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

If you have a predominant monoculture in the area, that's what flavors the honey. Citrus farms, Maine blueberries, Plymouth cranberries, buckwheat farms, honey from those areas all have notable differences.

I prefer clover, but that's just me.

[Anthony]

I wonder if there were land use disputes about beekeeping. The thing about bees is, they're not likely to obey property lines or fences, so if you put a hive right next to your neighbor's orchard, you can take advantage. That's generally going to be harmless unless your neighbor wants to put up his own hive, but if he does that seems like it has the potential for conflicts.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I wonder if there were land use disputes about beekeeping.

Probably not many... and I can't find anything on it with a cursory search. About the only things I can of that might trigger own would be the use of pesticides on orchards or other similar "bee forage crops" and that causing hive collapse in an apiary. The beekeeper might, might try to sue to force the local farmers to forgo pesticides on certain crops, but I don't seeing that going over well historically.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I prefer clover, but that's just me.

Here in New Zealand, when I grew up pure clover honey was the premium product. Now it's manuka honey, for its supposed health benefits.