Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2023, 10:53 AM   #11
Lovewyrm
 
Lovewyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

It's only neutral if good reactions get lowered, too, though...
__________________
If it's forbidden to say anything good about something, why believe the bad that's said about it?
If it's forbidden to say anything bad about something, why believe the good that's said about it?
Lovewyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2023, 12:44 PM   #12
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
It's only neutral if good reactions get lowered, too, though...
... which is exactly what the proposal is for, and all the suggestions have been toward.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2023, 12:54 PM   #13
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

I would say it's either a zero point feature or a perk if the GM doesn't roll reaction rolls for the character and just assumes that every NPC rolls a 10. Then just don't take any traits that have reaction modifiers, and everyone will react in a neutral manner unless they have something like intolerance or a situational modifier.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 01:20 AM   #14
Lovewyrm
 
Lovewyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
... which is exactly what the proposal is for, and all the suggestions have been toward.
Yeah but some call it an advantage, on the grounds of that it's better to not get a bad roll.
But why would heroes get many bad rolls from people they want to cooperate with?
So not getting good ones from those is kind of not a boon.

That leaves antagonists, and I'd say that even if someone who isn't outright out to kill them (captors, for example) will probably just go "Nothing personal, it's my job"

Because due to the neutrality, the roll cannot be favorable enough to be let go, unless it's just some weight toward neutrality which some suggestions have.

Otherwise it will always and forever be ...neutral.
Don't see how that is a big advantage, and at the same time, big disadvantage.

I would rather just roll with the lows and reap in higher highs than get stump'd on both...
At least playing an adventurer.
If you're just playing "meh man" then ...fine I guess.

If it's gonna be worth points, then I'd go with disadvantage over advantage, to gain points, not pay for "making it harder for antagonists to perhaps let me go or treat me extra nice"

Versus "This guy who will be helped by me, so even if he doesn't like me THAT much will at least treat me 'neutrally'"
__________________
If it's forbidden to say anything good about something, why believe the bad that's said about it?
If it's forbidden to say anything bad about something, why believe the good that's said about it?
Lovewyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 04:09 AM   #15
Sam Baughn
 
Sam Baughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

How about the Extra Option perk (GURPS Power-Ups 2: Perks, p.20) granting access to This One Goes to 11 (Pyramid Magazine, Volume 3, Issue 65: Alternate GURPS III, pp. 34-35) for the purposes of reaction rolls only?

Blending in easily might be some combination of Forgettable Face, Honest Face, and Passing Appearance (Androgynous and Passing Complexion) (all in Power-Ups 2, p.4).
__________________
My blog.
Sam Baughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 07:28 AM   #16
Lovewyrm
 
Lovewyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Blending in, or something, is probably better.
Cause the more I think about a 'true neutrality' that...by its nature would override all sorts of things...would be kind of a hell, wouldn't it?

I mean, really imagine a character, a person who has this trait, and the more 'true neutral' it is, the worse it becomes.

Want to be a musician? You could train all day and night for years, people will not react in any way but "Oh that was okay"

Run at the schools track and field, and make good time? "Huh, that was fast"

Try to impress your crush, try to get ahead in a job, etc.

Imagine anything you ever did in your life and remove at the very least, the reactionary, immediate reward from it.

What effect would that have on your psyche? In fact, this trait would probably an adventure hook to start a quest to get rid of it.
There's so many immediate good things than actual animosity bad things...

In fact, I wonder if having that trait would even be all that fantastical.
It's not uncommon irl to have people who just 'exist' through life, happy to not get into trouble, while also never making much out of their name.
They find the relief of not being in trouble, a reward in itself.

Which is understandable, but also, to me, is kind of antithesis to being an adventurer.
For a roleplay character, this trait, the more 'it actually does' about what it says it is, the more tragic it becomes.
It's on curse levels for role playing to me. I wanna make soup for the character that has it.
But only cause I haven't met him or her, if I did...they'd probably just pass through in an unremarkable way.

To the graaaave.

Only the mundane goes down the Orcus quietly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8-aQl9-KaE
__________________
If it's forbidden to say anything good about something, why believe the bad that's said about it?
If it's forbidden to say anything bad about something, why believe the good that's said about it?
Lovewyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 10:46 AM   #17
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I thought of this too, but then I also thought of adding Odious Personal Habit (offsets bonuses only, -50%), and that made me realize that the two cancel each other out, points-wise. Therefore "Induces Neutral Reactions" would effectively be a 0-point feature, assuming the character has no other general reaction modifiers (and why would they, given the premise?).

So basically, role-play being average, and ask the GM to occasionally nudge your reaction rolls toward neutral where appropriate, and you've got what you're looking for.
This IS a 0 points feature. Since this cancels out negative repercussions but also positive ones on an 1 by 1 basis, this is most definitely a 0 poinst feature.

I would also add that the character is absolutely VERBOTTEN to take any ad/disad that deals with reaction modifiers, unless they are also treated as 0 point features.

For instance, Hideous (Basic) is a 0 points feature. Yes, you are somewhat grotesque to look at but nah, nobody really cares. Or, you may be gorgeous, but once again nah, nobody cares. Your beauty does not transpire into any sort of physical attraction or desire to anybody - much to your owm personal indignation! This could really cause a personal complex - heck, you could even get a Disad based on this (Im beautiful, but why dont anybody notice me! I feel invisible!)

This "Basic" feature could be as follows: "any positive reaction roll will always be treated as just a +1 reaction, and any negative reaction roll will always be treated as a -1 roll, no matter how well or how terrible the rolling was". That way, the results can vary between mildly amicable or moderately annoyed, but never something like utter devotion or murderous hate.
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 10:51 AM   #18
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
This IS a 0 points feature. Since this cancels out negative repercussions but also positive ones on an 1 by 1 basis, this is most definitely a 0 poinst feature.

I would also add that the character is absolutely VERBOTTEN to take any ad/disad that deals with reaction modifiers, unless they are also treated as 0 point features.

For instance, Hideous (Basic) is a 0 points feature. Yes, you are somewhat grotesque to look at but nah, nobody really cares. Or, you may be gorgeous, but once again nah, nobody cares. Your beauty does not transpire into any sort of physical attraction or desire to anybody - much to your owm personal indignation! This could really cause a personal complex - heck, you could even get a Disad based on this (Im beautiful, but why dont anybody notice me! I feel invisible!)

This "Basic" feature could be as follows: "any positive reaction roll will always be treated as just a +1 reaction, and any negative reaction roll will always be treated as a -1 roll, no matter how well or how terrible the rolling was". That way, the results can vary between mildly amicable or moderately annoyed, but never something like utter devotion or murderous hate.
Again, I think avoiding negative reactions is worth more than missing out on possible good reactions, as is simply not having to worry about the risk of negative reactions at all.

Being able to essentially bypass a feature of the game that other characters have to spend points on seems to be an advantage, to me.
JulianLW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 03:06 PM   #19
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Again, I think avoiding negative reactions is worth more than missing out on possible good reactions, as is simply not having to worry about the risk of negative reactions at all.

Being able to essentially bypass a feature of the game that other characters have to spend points on seems to be an advantage, to me.
Your opinion is equally valid as any other obviously, and it's entirely within your prerogative to judge it to be so at your game as a GM.

In my own humble opinion thou, if I may humbly disagree, is that such a trait would be a 0 points feature both in practical and in game mechanics terms.

In terms of mechanics, the amount of "good" gets cancelled out by the amount of "bad". Sure you wont get the town's guard rallying all the peasants of the village to chase you down the woods with pichforks and torches in the middle of the night due to your obvious "demonic demeanor", but neither will you have the baron giving you the "Angelic Sword" that has been in his family for generations for you to hunt down the "abomination that lives in the secret cave" just because you "are obviously the holy warrior sent by the heavens".

In a practical sense, Im more of a mind of what Lovewyrm said, and I say that this is probably more of a CURSE than a boon.

Imagine you just slew the horrific demon that was terrorizing the town, and then you go up to the High Priest and the Duke with the head of the beast, proud at your achievement and so happy that the townsfolk wont be losing their precious children anymore, and then everybody just look at you and say... Meh. The Sheriff gives you the promissed reward (and not a single dime more), and then the Duke simply asks you to leave the palace because the court must now assemble for their normal businesses.

Also, no bards will ever sing the tales of your accomplishments. And if you start an argument saying "but I saved your sorry asses from the demon you ungrateful rats!", everybody just answers "yeah, but there's always a demon or crazy fairy or evil spirit you know, that was hardly impressive"... or "if it wasnt you, it would be somebody else, stranger..."

Oh yes, there's one more thing which I forgot: this Feature also prevents you from having Allies or Contacts and similar traits too. Nobody really is your friend or cares about you. The only Contacts you have are those that you pay, and even then they'll only ever be as loyal as the money you provide.

I dont agree that this is more benefitial than harmful. I'd say that it's the opposite.

You see, throughout their adventuring career, most players will try to cultivate good Contacts and Allies and a good reputation for themselves (unless they are dumb). That will naturally happen, even if they didnt start with those on their sheets.

Also, players dont go out of their way to accrue as many penalties as possible towards their reaction rolls. But they do do that in order to have bonuses. So, a Mage will try to stay on the good side of the "generic Mage's Guild" in order to have access to Alchemist traders, training and research facilities, magic items etc.

A man at arms wants the possibility to one day achieve the title of captain and perhaps earn a nobility title of Knight (or above).

Now, imagine the intrepid adventurer "No-Friends-Joe" is a highly skilled "Thief/Spy" seeking a chance to improve his lot in life trying to join the "generic Thieves Guild". He'll never stand a chance!

"Little Joe? Yeah, you know, he's a nice kid and all but... I really wouldnt trust him for this job, I think we should do better looking somewhere else for this".

Heck, he wouldnt even be accepted into the Thieves Guild!

"You know that this is the Guild's turf, right boy? And you know you cant be stealing without the guild's permission... Sorry kid, you are alright and all, but we have our orders... I feel sorry about having to do this, but you know that it aint nothing personal."

"Now, I hope this beating teaches you not to cross the guild. Dont make us do this again Joe. You know the rules. You can only operate with the guild's permission. Now, if the bosses said that you dont it for being a member, than the bosses have their reasons, we just follow the orders. Now be a good lad and stay out of trouble".

Forget about that promotion, forget about becoming the Pirate King or the High Priest or the Grandmaster of the Arcane School or Centurion of the Legion.

I hope I have been able to make my case, but you are allowed to your opinion either way.

Last edited by KarlKost; 06-10-2023 at 03:09 PM.
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2023, 03:23 PM   #20
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Trait: Neutral Reaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
For a roleplay character, this trait, the more 'it actually does' about what it says it is, the more tragic it becomes.
It's on curse levels for role playing to me. I wanna make soup for the character that has it.
But only cause I haven't met him or her, if I did...they'd probably just pass through in an unremarkable way.
Yes, I am of the same mind as you on that subject, and I do feel it to be on the level of a magic/divine curse kind of stuff.

But if I can be honest... This could actually make for a GREAT roleplay experience.

This would be something for the "Unsung Hero" kind of tale. The man who does what's right because it's right, without ever expecting anything in return... Because he's never going to have anything out of it.

Someone who is a hero due to a strong sense of morality and nothing else, and that no matter how well intentioned or how brave and devoted, will never receive any kind of praises.

Being good for good's sake.

That could actually be worth some fantastic roleplay for a tragic hero type of story.
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.