Is this Working as Intended or did i messed things up?

[Gnome]

I have a lot of experience with this kind of problem, since my group has played many high powered (250-600 pt) DF campaigns.
I find that if you "nerf" the wizard too often with no mana zones, absurd levels of enemy magic resistance, meteoric weapons and so on, things can get unfun, but certainly those options should be on the table and we use them liberally.

When I'm GMing, I like to put powerful enemy mages in the PCs' path, which can kind of neutralize the PC mage by either countering his magic or getting up to the same tricks (buffing minions, casting Rooted Feet on the low ST mage, etc.). I also tend to make a gameworld assumption that spells in general (whether arcane, divine, etc.) are fleeting, ephemeral things that can fall off from time to time based on various environmental factors, which is to say they're not 100% reliable. So whenever the party passes through a portal (seems to happen a lot in my games), all spells fall off, and highly protected areas are equipped with magical "spell filters" that automatically dispel all spells that pass through the filter. And needless to say, many enemies are immune to mind control (undead, demons, etc.), highly resistant to spells due to exceptional attributes (don't forget Rule of 16!), and so on.

Finally, even the most powerful wizards have trouble upstaging warriors, because somebody has to actually swing a sword and kill those bad guys! No matter how good you are at spellcasting, you're not going to have much luck against the two dozen axe-wielding skeletons that just emerged around you unless you have a few melee fighters with you, although certainly you will contribute with buffs, battlefield control spells, and maybe blowing up a few skeletons...

[Kromm]

I'm with the people saying, "If someone has spent the campaign's entire point allotment on IQ, Magery, spells, and magic-related traits, that implies holes elsewhere." What do this wizard's ST and thus HP look like? More important, how about HT? Active defenses, particularly Dodge? Move? And DX- and HT-based skills, including combat skills, Stealth, and "boring" stuff like Hiking?

Even a wizard this powerful can't replace all of that with spells. Sure, a wizard can boost attributes and defenses that way, but not by much before the maintenance costs become an issue, unless the party just sits around all the time. And those would be spells "on," reducing the wizard's reach and effectiveness . . . the Resisted spell at 21 that could work at 16 even on someone five yards away isn't nearly as cool when it's at -6 due to, say, Armor, Grace, Haste, Missile Shield, Shield, and Vigor.

Which means the wizard needs backup plans, such as armor and a weapon. But armor is heavy and really slows you down at low ST, which isn't something you can afford when your Dodge and Move aren't all that high to begin with. And weapons are rather anemic at low ST and DX.

Directly neutralizing the wizard's magical capabilities in combat is fine for a change of pace, but shouldn't happen any more often than enemies that bind, teleport, or disintegrate a warrior's weapons, or that are totally immune to a psi's powers. But you can exploit the weaknesses I just mentioned without resorting to that! In fact, many classic fantasy combat encounters will do so without making things "personal" – i.e., without being set up specifically to take out the wizard.

For instance, if 10 secret doors open along either side of a hallway and 20 zombies emerge, some of them one yard away on either side of the group, the rest cutting off escape up or down the passage, the wizard is going to have to deal with making multiple defense rolls while flanked. Things will get very bad very quickly for someone with low ST and poor combat skills if these foes grapple. And zombies don't have to be slow . . . if they have decent DX and HT, they might well have higher Basic Speed than the wizard, and get a surprise attack and then act first.

If the enemy is a huge flying dragon outdoors, what's the wizard going to do? Casting spells on an SM +5 creature costs six times as much energy. If the dragon can swoop around at Air Move 21 with a 10-yard-range breath weapon, it'll probably stay 10 yards away, giving -10 to regular spells. And with HT and Will in the 15-16 range, it will resist like a champ. The fight might start with the dragon swooping out of nowhere; if it can cast spells itself, it may even arrive invisible or otherwise undetectable. A dragon with IQ 16 isn't going to fight fair!

And while involving no-mana areas and meteoric iron in every fight will feel contrived – that is, it'll look like an effort to nerf the wizard – foes with Magic Resistance aren't meant to be rare. A small horde of otherwise ordinary warriors from a tribe that has lots of Magic Resistance would be quite a challenge.

Of course, the wizard might just fly or teleport away in these situations. That's fine. But don't compromise on what the enemy does. If the bad guys arrived ready to ambush a group of three or four, including a powerful wizard known to be a threat to armies, the wizard's departure means the PCs who remain are going to be horribly swamped. Let them tell the wizard how they feel about that afterward . . . if they survive.

Out of combat is when to use no-mana areas and meteoric iron. In a world where powerful wizards exist, nothing a powerful wizard would truly crave by way of treasure or knowledge will be left where a powerful wizard could just waltz in and get it with magic. Locks will routinely be made of meteoric iron, because you don't need all that much for a lock. The perimeters of vaults and other secure areas will be drained of mana. And the golems guarding the door will be built with high Magic Resistance (they might even be meteoric iron golems, animated by something other than magic – say, mad gnomish steam-tech).

[smurf]

I always think that there should be a Mage Talent at 15pts per level.

I am not sure how or what the prerequisite skills would be. Writing and of course all the spells that are known to the character.

This I thinks makes for a more playable character rather than having massive IQ.

[trooper6]

Magery is basically the Mage Talent.

[Darakai]

Again, Thanks a lot for all the support guys, the problem kinda sorted itself out when my friend who was playing the wizard had to abandon the group due to his classes now going 2 hours into our game night time, making it impossible for us to play together for the next couple of months.

Thanks for all the ideas, for sure i will be using all of them, meteoric iron for locks, mana drained areas, natural magic resistance, foes that understand magic and it's shotcomings, another magic users that will bring trouble to the caster (if one of my 2 new friends decide to pick a wizard themselves).

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Darakai

I am looking for a way to balance the Base value from wich a mage learn spells to avoid having someone spend 1 point in each spell and have them at a uber High NH.

I’d say you can do this by requiring ancillary advantages; Require extra levels of social regard and reputation for tiers of highest effective spell level. A wizard who knows every spell at 20+ should be known worldwide and feared or respected. “It’s Tim the Enchanter!” The extra points spent on reputation/regard help slow wizard progression.
Have enemies intelligently target the wizard with ranged attacks. You reduced your ST to 8 and HP to 6 to help pay for IQ? Too bad, so sad.
Have a jaunt through a sewer, corpse filled room, or jungle with biting insects. You reduced your HT to 8 to help pay for IQ? That really sucks; your friends needed you to be not feverish and hallucinating. Heal yourself? Okay, here’s the penalty: ...

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Darakai

Again, Thanks a lot for all the support guys, the problem kinda sorted itself out when my friend who was playing the wizard had to abandon the group due to his classes now going 2 hours into our game night time, making it impossible for us to play together for the next couple of months.

Thanks for all the ideas, for sure i will be using all of them, meteoric iron for locks, mana drained areas, natural magic resistance, foes that understand magic and it's shotcomings, another magic users that will bring trouble to the caster (if one of my 2 new friends decide to pick a wizard themselves).

My advice: Next time start with a smaller Character Point Game, or stick with a genre and the templates (for instance Dungeon Fantasy*, Monster Hunters, After the End, Action!, etc).



* Either DF or DFRPG... though admittedly given time you will end up with the same problem Wizards (enough exp and DF Wizards also end up as over-Powered Swiss Army Knives), however the other Characters will also tend to be more hyper focused as well and thus will be outshining the Wizard in their niches.