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Old 07-10-2019, 02:02 PM   #1
Jaware
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Default Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion))

Ok. So i have session tomorrow. and i thought from memory I know how this worked. But i unfortunaly remembered it wrong.

So I need quick help.

Long story short, i designed an encounter with a golem, as it gives the 2 big strong characters someone to bash. but i also gave it the ability to sorta morph and change its body shape/type of it and its equipment etc. i also gave it the ability to just, disassemble into the Tick-Tack sized bits and move and reform to continue to guard its charge etc. That gives the wizard and cleric time to cast AOE spells into the goo. Giving them something to do in the fight.

Turns out, i hadnt looked at the rules in a very long time, and i miss remembered them.

so. I need help trying to understand what how in the world damage works with the diffuse swarm. its incapable of interaction with the environment directly.

Both HORROR, and POWERS states that "While scattered, only AOE, Cone, and Explosion attacks can harm you, and only in proportion with the surface they cover. EG. an attack with 5% of your area does 5% damage"

and thats all. no example. nada.

How do i calculate that? and how does that calculate with explosion damage?

like say for example, the swarm takes up a nice round number thats easy to calculate and easy to math.

Say 10 Hexes. and an area create fire takes up 3 hexes. dealing 1d6-1 damage to it. for simplicities sake, well say that it only takes damage once, after that it moves out of the aoe.

By my way of figure, thats 3/10, or 30% area caught in the fire. saying that each of the 3 hexes took 1d-1, that's a total of 3d-3 burning, say you roll average, got 7Pts of burning damage. multiply that by 30%, thats 2 pts of injury.

Is the above correct?

And also, The wizard is almost certainly going to throw an explosive foreball.
looking at an 3d6, or 6d6, or maybe even a 9d6 Explosive fireball spell.

For simplicities sake, well say it was a 6d6 ExFi. How on earth are you to calculate that?

are you supossed to calculate the distance that the damage could possibly be larger than zero to figure out possible Area?

assuming monster has DR 2 for being made of Oricalcum metal, Damage Needs to be at least 3 to cause harm.

for 6d6, thats Ground zero, max-36 ,min-6 , Avg-21
for 6d6, thats 1 yard range, max-12,min-2, Avg-6.67
for 6d6, thats 2 yard range, max-6,min-1, Avg-3.08
for 6d6, thats 3 yard range, max-4,min-1, Avg-1.89
for 6d6, thats 4 yard range, max-3,min-1, Avg-1.27
for 6d6, thats 5 yard range, max-2,min-1, Avg-.96

so, it has an effective range of 4 yard area.hiting 61 total hexes? before being unable to deal damage anylonger.

in the actual real problem at hand, the golem can take up to move 6, meaning the edges can move up to 6 yards away taking up an area of 91 hexes in total.

the above example day droped into the dead center would hit 61/91 hexes or 67% of the area. Would you roll damage for each and every one of those hexes, tally it up, and then multiply it by 67%? or what?

I dont know if i am interpreting this correctly or not? Help Please?
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:19 PM   #2
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

Calculating area is pretty simple, actually.

The Body of Swarm is spread out over a radius of R. That's an area of πR^2. The attack has a radius of r. That's an area of πr^2. The ratio of areas is πr^2/πR^2, which simplifies to r^2/R^2, or if you prefer, to (r/R)^2.

So, for example, if the swarm has radius 100 yards, and the explosion has radius 20 yards, the fraction of damage is (20/100)^2 = 0.2^2 = 0.04.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:27 PM   #3
Jaware
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Calculating area is pretty simple, actually.

The Body of Swarm is spread out over a radius of R. That's an area of πR^2. The attack has a radius of r. That's an area of πr^2. The ratio of areas is πr^2/πR^2, which simplifies to r^2/R^2, or if you prefer, to (r/R)^2.

So, for example, if the swarm has radius 100 yards, and the explosion has radius 20 yards, the fraction of damage is (20/100)^2 = 0.2^2 = 0.04.
ok, That simplifies calculations pretty well.

but what about implementing it? how does that work? do you have to roll damage for each and every one of those hexes? and then multiply damage by the resulting Fraction?

the area isnt so much the problem to calculate. theres the 3r^2-3r+1 equation for calculating number of hexes in a given radius etc. My biggest issue is how i am supposed to apply the fractionary area and therefore fractionary "normal Damage as the books put it"

Last edited by Jaware; 07-10-2019 at 02:30 PM. Reason: clarity of communication
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:34 PM   #4
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

I'd roll for the center and then either average the rest or drop dice based on distance. Depends on what seems most satisfying in play.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:12 PM   #5
Jaware
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I'd roll for the center and then either average the rest or drop dice based on distance. Depends on what seems most satisfying in play.
I agree. Though I play on a computer so it autorolls numbers and takes next to no effort from me to just let it use what pops up.

anyway, thats not the part im having trouble with.

its how the "an attack that covey 5% of your area dons 5% of its damage" part that im not comprehending.

Im not sure how to apply that to the output of damage from whatever source.
the only question i had about explostion was in calculation of area and how would one do that since damage changes based on distance from epicenter.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:17 PM   #6
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

I think the problem you're talking about is how the damage per hex isn't consistent, so I guess what you'd need to do is calculate it in "rings". Count the number of hexes which take a certain amount of damage from the blast radius which the swarm is occupying, then calculate what % of the swarm's overall mass those hexes are, and that's what you multiply the damage by.

You then do that for each ring as you spread out and reduce the damage, I guess? I don't know if there's really any simple formula for it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:15 AM   #7
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

Something I don't understand.

For creatures that occupay more than one hex, that are hit by an explosions, do you calculate the damage each hex of the creature would take and then apply them all ?
Seems quite deadly.
Do you also do the same to fragmentation damage ? Each hex of a creature gets it's own fragments ? Seems odd, since the chance to hit for fragments already considers the target SM
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:28 PM   #8
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

regarding fragmentation, B415:

The fragments attack everyone else in the area at skill 15.
Only three modifiers apply:
the range modifier
for the distance from the center of the blast to the target,
the modifier for the target’s posture (prone, etc.),
and the target’s Size Modifier.
It is possible for several fragments to hit!
For every three points by which the attack roll succeeds,
one additional fragment strikes the target.
It seems like SM influences how many hit you already, so I'm not sure if how many hexes you occupy does too.

I can see the argument that turtling up would give you a smaller profile and maybe have less fragments hit you than being spread-eagled though. That's somewhat covered by posture, although it doesn't seem to distinguish between someone who is spread out lying down (occupying 2 hexes lying) and someone who is turtled up lying down (can you even occupy 1 hex lying down?)

regarding explosions, Kromm in 2012:

Large targets already suffer from taking explosion damage based on the shortest path from blast to target.
Consider a blast at the edge of an imaginary disc 5 yards in radius:
A man standing at the center of that disc is 5 yards distant from the blast, and divides damage by 15.
An actual disc-shaped object with its center of mass where that man was standing takes full damage, and might even suffer a contact explosion for maximum damage.
Morever, targeting the disc with the explosive is at +5 or +6 for size, depending on form factor, which makes a contact blast far more likely
So it sounds like it would just be applied one time with damage calculated in respect to whichever hex they're occupying is nearest to the explosion, while targeting that part is much easier.

I just don't know if it works like this for a swarm, because swarms might function differently, since they take a % of damage based on how many hexes of the swarm is in the AE, whereas normal creatures take 100% of the damage if any part of them is in the AE.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:28 PM   #9
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
It seems like SM influences how many hit you already, so I'm not sure if how many hexes you occupy does too.
Your SM (and posture) already dictates how many hexes you occupy, there's no need to speculate on any kind of double dipping there. Diffuse/Swarm uses different mechanics to calculate damage.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:29 PM   #10
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Diffuse body of swarm with scatter enhancement, and AOE attacks (Mainly Explosion

A quick search didn't find anything more than what u already said.

So I guess you just figure the shortest distance to the AoE center and use that to calculate damage. You then reduce it if the entire swarm is not completely covered by the explosion area.

Still a lot more damage than anything a diffuse creature would take from any other attack.
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