Picking up a dropped weapon while engaged - when do you stand up?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

So apparently all that is needed is a shift to a side hex and then you can pick the weapon up from under their feet with no problem?

As an action, while having no Front hexes yourself. If you can manage to stand next to a foe's side offering +4 to be hit for a turn without getting knocked down, yes.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

But that doesn't add up.

If you scoop up the weapon on turn 1, it can't logically be "ready" at the start of turn 2 ("ready next turn") unless you spent your action for turn 1 readying it. You therefore shouldn't get another action during turn 1 after making the scoop.

If you take another action in turn 1 after the scoop, then you should have to spend turn 2 on READY WEAPON.

The "scoop" on turn 1 may have been free, but the act of readying it too has to cost the rest of the turn.

Not according to the rule for scooping up weapons on ITL page 104: "A weapon picked up this way is ready next turn."

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

... If you get it, then you are allowing someone to pick up a weapon on the move and attack with it in the same turn. ...

Except you're not, because it only becomes ready on the next turn.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Not according to the rule for scooping up weapons on ITL page 104: "A weapon picked up this way is ready next turn."

I'm not trying to say it will be ready on the turn you scoop it, I'm saying you're using up that turn to have it ready by the start of that next turn.

You never get to use a weapon on the same turn you take READY WEAPON either. Any turn that starts with a weapon ready must be preceded by at least one turn that was spent on getting it ready. And that's also what I believe Axyl was agreeing with.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

I'm not trying to say it will be ready on the turn you scoop it, I'm saying you're using up that turn to have it ready by the start of that next turn.

You never get to use a weapon on the same turn you take READY WEAPON either. Any turn that starts with a weapon ready must be preceded by at least one turn that was spent on getting it ready. And that's also what I believe Axyl was agreeing with.

Ok, and I'm just pointing out that ITL 104 describes the scoop during movement as if it were the same as jumping, which does not use the figure's action for the turn, and does not require any particular Option to be taken as long as it provides enough movement.

I think a literal reading of RAW is that you can therefore scoop a weapon while moving full MA (-3 or with a 3/DX roll), or could be combined with other actions including Dodge or just about anything else, as it seems to be a thing that can be done during movement using MA or a roll, that doesn't say it prevents you from doing anything else that turn.

Now, I might agree with you that it should say that a figure that does this doesn't get to do another action, but it looks to me that the rules don't say that.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Now, I might agree with you that it should say that a figure that does this doesn't get to do another action, but it looks to me that the rules don't say that.

I agree the rules don't say that but doing it this way is the only way that makes sense. Yes the rules section talk about actions during movement that can easily imply you still get an action. Unfortunately, it is just not stated strongly enough so it is only implied. I found it best to go with what makes sense in these situation.

For example, I used to argue that the rules strongly imply thrown weapon get a facing bonus. Everything in the rules imply this. But it just does not make sense. I think it was you that made that point to me. :-)

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

I agree the rules don't say that but doing it this way is the only way that makes sense. Yes the rules section talk about actions during movement that can easily imply you still get an action. Unfortunately, it is just not stated strongly enough so it is only implied. I found it best to go with what makes sense in these situation.

For example, I used to argue that the rules strongly imply thrown weapon get a facing bonus. Everything in the rules imply this. But it just does not make sense. I think it was you that made that point to me. :-)

Yeah. Though I'd be interested in what the strongest argument is that it doesn't make sense that someone could scoop up a weapon from a hex they move through, still be able to take an action, and have the weapon be ready the next turn? If movement happens before action, and scooping takes 3 MA, why would it be more limiting on actions to scoop than to move 3 hexes?

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Skarg

If movement happens before action, and scooping takes 3 MA, why would it be more limiting on actions to scoop than to move 3 hexes?

It sounds like it makes sense, but then why does it say you cannot use the weapon until next turn. That implies you need to spend your action readying it. To me this seems odd that it prevents one action but not others.

But this is not a hill to die on. Either action is consumed or action is available for any use without the weapon. It would be nice for an official ruling.

If non-scooped-weapon action is allow then you would see these potential actions:
- move up to half MA (including the 3 MA or DX roll) and attack with a weapon in the other hand
- move up to half MA (etc) and dodge
- move up to 2 hexes (use DX roll to scoop) and in addition to scooping you ready a new weapon or load a crossbow or switch weapons.
- move 1 hex (use DX roll to scoop) and cast a spell or disbelieve
- move 1 hex (use DX roll to scoop) and fire a sling (has to be a one handed weapon since the other was scooping)
- move up to half MA and enter HTH from a rear hex


I got to say I like the idea of someone scooping up a dagger and jumping into HTH. Hero stuff. Still does not make sense why drawing the dagger from his belt would take a turn longer. Of course you would not get to have use of the dagger in that first attack that comes with HTH engaging but still pretty cool. As well as the attack: snatch up a weapon and shield slam someone in the same turn (for this example, the already readied weapon being your shield).

I don't like the idea of casting, disbelieving and sling attack. Seems to frenetic. And having an action in the middle of a dodge makes that the ideal time to get shot, so dodging does not sound valid to me either. And I don't like the other readying action being done at the same time, seems too many hands need to be involved.

So the net for me is still to saw the action was consumed when scooping.

[hcobb]

My elf stands still while dodging, picks sword and shield off the ground, and readies both of them.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

My elf stands still while dodging, picks sword and shield off the ground, and readies both of them.

Scoop only works for one item.