Modern Heros

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Would you say they enter the army with IQ 11+, or that the army training gives them IQ 11+ by the time they need to be able to use the IQ 11 guns talent?

In game terms, I would say that most do enter with it, they just haven't had a reason to focus it in certain areas. That's were drill instructors and drill sergeants come in.

This is an area the game doesn't model well. Modern soldiers in most armies can be trained to be proficient with arms and to learn the skills they are required to have in a period of a few months. The US model, depending on MOS, is 14-20 weeks, but some take much longer. My understanding is that to become a competent swordsman took, or takes, years.

In a middle ages or renaissance society, what an 18 year kid would know is extremely limited compared to what an 18 year can know in the modern world. One of the best things to come out of the Legacy Edition is the break between IQ and the number of skills one can have. Real IQ is difficult to measure and may not change much over the course of a lifetime, but, knowledge, experience and training all continue to grow throughout life.

[Skarg]

Yes, well put. I agree with most of what you say, including the part that TFT wouldn't model modern military training well without some changes.

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Would you say they enter the army with IQ 11+, or that the army training gives them IQ 11+ by the time they need to be able to use the IQ 11 guns talent?

In today's modern military I would say yes, most have IQ 11. Education level is a different matter, so you could have some with HS diplomas and some with Master's degrees in the same unit.

[JLV]

There seems to be a misconception among many folks (especially the younger ones these days, who simply haven't had the opportunity to know many people in the military I think -- since the end of the Cold War, we've considerably shrunk our military, which means they just aren't seen around as much as the old days) that "grunts" must be stupid people.

I've never met a stupid grunt. I've met a few reckless ones (also usually the youngest and least experienced), but never a stupid one.

(Which should not be construed to mean that I think anyone HERE thinks that, just that it seems to be a misconception you hear more frequently these days...)

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by JLV

There seems to be a misconception among many folks (especially the younger ones these days, who simply haven't had the opportunity to know many people in the military I think -- since the end of the Cold War, we've considerably shrunk our military, which means they just aren't seen around as much as the old days) that "grunts" must be stupid people.

I've never met a stupid grunt. I've met a few reckless ones (also usually the youngest and least experienced), but never a stupid one.

(Which should not be construed to mean that I think anyone HERE thinks that, just that it seems to be a misconception you hear more frequently these days...)

I hear you!!

[Skarg]

It seems to me there are several points of interpretation from perceptions about the military in game terms, that could result in a very wide range of possible game stats. It seems to me the most important, if someone were to try to run a modern military TFT adaptation, would be to define what sorts of game values to assign.

e.g. Hcobb started by (ironically?) suggesting that a typical marine Lieutenant would be ST 15 DX 14 IQ 13 (42 points) with piles of talents.

Another GM might think a marine LT could be as humble as ST 11 DX 10 IQ 11 (32 points) with only a few IQ points of military talents.


There are also some peculiar side-effects of point-buy character creation, especially with the new steep attribute cost curve. In TFT, often fighters start with IQ 8 or 9, and going up to IQ 11 or even 10 is a major detour away from physical competence.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Skarg

There are also some peculiar side-effects of point-buy character creation, especially with the new steep attribute cost curve. In TFT, often fighters start with IQ 8 or 9, and going up to IQ 11 or even 10 is a major detour away from physical competence.

Every sample fighter card is a 34 point character with IQ 10. They will crush your pathetic 32 point starting PCs.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Every sample fighter card is a 34 point character with IQ 10. They will crush your pathetic 32 point starting PCs.

A sample fighter with 34 points, IQ 10, and no special talents, tends to be a weaker combatant than a well-designed fighter with 32 points that takes advantage of talents.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Skarg

It seems to me there are several points of interpretation from perceptions about the military in game terms, that could result in a very wide range of possible game stats. It seems to me the most important, if someone were to try to run a modern military TFT adaptation, would be to define what sorts of game values to assign.

e.g. Hcobb started by (ironically?) suggesting that a typical marine Lieutenant would be ST 15 DX 14 IQ 13 (42 points) with piles of talents.

Another GM might think a marine LT could be as humble as ST 11 DX 10 IQ 11 (32 points) with only a few IQ points of military talents.


There are also some peculiar side-effects of point-buy character creation, especially with the new steep attribute cost curve. In TFT, often fighters start with IQ 8 or 9, and going up to IQ 11 or even 10 is a major detour away from physical competence.

Keep in mind, however that you are using the same system to simulate two entirely different sets of people and circumstances. Thus, the modern warrior doesn't really have to worry about lugging 60lbs of gear INTO combat (or swinging a 15lb sword for half an hour once he gets there) -- he just has to worry about getting his extraneous equipment (tent half, mess kit, blanket, spare socks, and your half of the roll of barbed wire) to the general area. When you're actually fighting, depending on circumstances of course, you spend most of your time prone or crawling, aiming your rifle from some kind of supported position, and otherwise NOT doing medieval warrior stuff. Once the shooting started, we generally dropped packs and crap and went with our webbing (with whatever was attached to it, usually first aid pouch, canteen, spare magazines, a knife, and maybe a few grenades), weapon, and helmet/armor (all of which totals up to considerably less than 60lbs of junk -- even with a full canteen) Likewise, people today are quite a bit better educated than even your most well-educated medieval monk or sage, so an IQ of 11 doesn't seem to me to be particularly out of line. DX is probably pretty close, assuming you had an active childhood and didn't spend all your time in front of a video game console.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by JLV

(or swinging a 15lb sword for half an hour once he gets there)

A TFT fighter making one attack every five seconds breaks a non-fine sword every 18 minutes on average, so it doesn't last that long.