some questions from a new player (mostly on wandering monster card)

[dimious200]

Hey everyone!I bought munchkin 3 weeks ago and we have already played about 10 games with my friends.It's really good and i am going to buy munchkin 2 one of these days.
When i read the errata/change log at the internet i got a little confused concerning the wandering monster card and the immunities/weaknesses of the monsters

A)Firstly,i understand that when sb wanders in the gazebo the player who is the helper can't help anymore and the player should fight both monster alone
BUT
what happens if the player had already played cards(monster enhancers,potions etc)??
-do they still stay in play and only thing that changes is that his combat strenght is not added anymore?
-are they discarded
-or are they going back to the helper's hand?

B)large ungry chicken:if someone wanders in a monster and i kill them both with fire i get one bonus level for each monster,right?

C)I understand that a monster who is friendly to the helper is friendly also for the other player(for example if one of the two players is a female then amazon will not fight them)
BUT
if one of the two monsters is friendly with you will this turn the other monster also friendly to you?
HERE IS MY CASE:i am a female character ,I have Wandering Monster and Amazon in my hand and i am facing Plutonium Dragon.can i wander in amazon (who is friendly to me) so at the end both monsters are friendly to me and give me one treasure each? (same for the lawyer and the thief and stoned golem for every class/race)

D)what about tongue demon?if i am facing a monster and someone wanders in tongue demon (and vice versa) have I to discard two items (one for the demon and one for the other monster) or one should do the job?

E)my version of insurance salesman (Greek edition) says "your level doesnt count.You can only deafeat him by using your bonuses from your items" (and not "fight him with your bonuses only" as i saw in other threads).Should we play it "with bonuses" generally or specifically only from items?
-In an other way,if i am a warrior can i use berserking to defeat him?

F)are the "+/- X against that race/class" of a monster considered immunities/weaknesses that affect the wandered in monster?
WHAT I MEAN:
say i am an elf warrior fighting a monster "+3 against elfs+" and a "+6 against warriors" is wandered in
-am i fighting a "+3 against elfs,+6 against warriors" and a "+6 against warriors,+3 against elfs" (+18 against me) OR
-i am fightng two monsters whose side is "+3 against elfs,+6 against warriors" (+9 against me)?

Sorry for the questions but we faced some of these cases above and we used to discuss for so much time only to roll a dice to decide who is right and who's wrong (the munchkin way!) :D

[SmokeRulz]

Originally Posted by dimious200

A)Firstly,i understand that when sb wanders in the gazebo the player who is the helper can't help anymore and the player should fight both monster alone
BUT
what happens if the player had already played cards(monster enhancers,potions etc)??
-do they still stay in play and only thing that changes is that his combat strenght is not added anymore?
-are they discarded
-or are they going back to the helper's hand?

Not entirely sure how to resolve this one. I imagine if he had played Monster Enhancers (or "de-hancers"), they stay, but if he had used any other items (most likely on himself) then they just go back to his hand. I'd wait for an official response on this one. I'm curious as well.

Originally Posted by dimious200

B)large ungry chicken:if someone wanders in a monster and i kill them both with fire i get one bonus level for each monster,right?

Nice try, but the bonus level is for the Chicken only.

Originally Posted by dimious200

C)I understand that a monster who is friendly to the helper is friendly also for the other player(for example if one of the two players is a female then amazon will not fight them)
BUT
if one of the two monsters is friendly with you will this turn the other monster also friendly to you?
HERE IS MY CASE:i am a female character ,I have Wandering Monster and Amazon in my hand and i am facing Plutonium Dragon.can i wander in amazon (who is friendly to me) so at the end both monsters are friendly to me and give me one treasure each? (same for the lawyer and the thief and stoned golem for every class/race)

As I recall, no, the Amazon will not magically turn the other monsters friendly. I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Amazon will still not fight you, so she'll give you a Treasure and leave. But you don't get that Treasure until you beat the other monsters, so wandering her in is a bad idea. Again, wait for an official response on this one.

Originally Posted by dimious200

D)what about tongue demon?if i am facing a monster and someone wanders in tongue demon (and vice versa) have I to discard two items (one for the demon and one for the other monster) or one should do the job?

You only discard one for the Tongue Demon. You seem to think that monster text/abilities (Angry Chicken, Amazon, and now Tongue Demon) will automatically transfer to other monsters in a combat. Get this idea out of your head, you silly! They may fight you together, but they don't share all their abilities with each other.

Originally Posted by dimious200

E)my version of insurance salesman (Greek edition) says "your level doesnt count.You can only deafeat him by using your bonuses from your items" (and not "fight him with your bonuses only" as i saw in other threads).Should we play it "with bonuses" generally or specifically only from items?
-In an other way,if i am a warrior can i use berserking to defeat him?

Hmm, that's interesting. I would normally say that using Berserking is just fine, since the American card says "fight using your bonuses." It doesn't specifically mention Items like your card apparently does. I'm not sure if the intent was to limit you further like that, so let's see what the official response is.

Originally Posted by dimious200

F)are the "+/- X against that race/class" of a monster considered immunities/weaknesses that affect the wandered in monster?
WHAT I MEAN:
say i am an elf warrior fighting a monster "+3 against elfs+" and a "+6 against warriors" is wandered in
-am i fighting a "+3 against elfs,+6 against warriors" and a "+6 against warriors,+3 against elfs" (+18 against me) OR
-i am fightng two monsters whose side is "+3 against elfs,+6 against warriors" (+9 against me)?

If you're an Elf Warrior, one monster has a +3 against Elves, and another has +6 against Warriors, then they're +9 against you. Again, don't double-up the monster abilities just because they're in battle together against you.

[MunchkinMan]

This is too much for me to try to answer from my phone. Smoke has a fair number of these correct. You don't double bonuses and the like, and I'm not sure why suddenly people think they do. Once I'm at a computer at home, I'll delve a lot deeper into this one.

[dimious200]

Thanks for the reply but in FAQ page it is clearly stated

"Q. What about during the combat? You said they fight side by side. Does that mean if one monster is affected (positively or negatively) by fire/flame weapons that all of them are?
A. Exactly. A monster's immunity (or weakness) is given to all others in the fight."

so what's an example of the above?i could only think of large angry chicken and a wandered in monster.

Munchkin Man thanks in advance

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

This is too much for me to try to answer from my phone. Smoke has a fair number of these correct. You don't double bonuses and the like, and I'm not sure why suddenly people think they do. Once I'm at a computer at home, I'll delve a lot deeper into this one.

I believe the reason why people believe bonuses double is due to this FAQ entry:

Originally Posted by FAQ

Q. What about during the combat? You said they fight side by side. Does that mean if one monster is affected (positively or negatively) by fire/flame weapons that all of them are?
A. Exactly. A monster's immunity (or weakness) is given to all others in the fight.

If you misinterpret the meaning of that answer, it is very easy to infer that other monsters gain the 'weakness' of the chicken that it gives up an extra treasure by killing it with fire, or that others can be automatically defeated in the same way.

Edit: Seems my theory was correct! :p

Originally Posted by dimious200

so what's an example of the above?i could only think of large angry chicken and a wandered in monster.

Munchkin Man thanks in advance

There aren't any real examples from plain Munchkin, I believe. There are monsters from other sets that take double damage from fire/flame weapons. This is such a weakness. You don't have to calculate which fire/flame weapons are being used against the double damage monster and which are used against the other monsters. You just double the combat bonus of every fire/flame weapon you have. Also, say you were in a battle with the Large Angry Chicken and one of these double damage monsters and you only had one fire attack. You get both benefits (your attack doubles and you get a bonus treasure if you win) and don't have to choose which monster you attack with your fire weapon as the weaknesses apply as a whole.

If one of the other monsters was immune to fire/flame, then you also can't choose to use your fire/flame weapons only against the other non-immune monsters either.

[Brf]

It is easier to think of the bonus/penalty being applied to a "side" of combat, to the monsters or to the munchkins. If you think of it that way, it is easy to see that a bonus/penalty only needs to be counted once.

[dimious200]

clipper you are right.Firstly i thought that only monster texts like "fight that monster alone/with levels only/with bonuses only" affect both monsters (combat wont be resolved easily otherwise) but after that FAQ entry i started thinking that the initial monster and the wandering monster exchange their texts so they have th same text (which is the fusion of the two monster texts)
anyway,an official answer should solve the problem

PS if that FAQ etry is misleading/wrong then it should be changed because wandering monster can create a lot of confusing situations.. :-/

[dimious200]

Originally Posted by Brf

It is easier to think of the bonus/penalty being applied to a "side" of combat, to the monsters or to the munchkins. If you think of it that way, it is easy to see that a bonus/penalty only needs to be counted once.

So for bonuses/weaknesses etc i should apply that side theory [+1 one level for flame attacks etc,+3 vs elfs,+6 vs warriors (applied only once)] but when it comes to things like "this monster won't attack you" it applies only to the monster who has this text?

EDIT:so if all of the above are correct only A,C and E require answer now :D thanks a lot guys!

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by dimious200

So for bonuses/weaknesses etc i should apply that side theory [+1 one level for flame attacks etc,+3 vs elfs,+6 vs warriors (applied only once)] but when it comes to things like "this monster won't attack you" it applies only to the monster who has this text?

EDIT:so if all of the above are correct only A,C and E require answer now :D thanks a lot guys!

For my thoughts (not official, but just for discussion purposes):

A: I'd say they'd all stay. There's nothing to indicate they should be retrieved or discarded. Although I am interested on an official ruling here, too.

C: The automatic defeat methods, such as the Amazon's are only for the monsters that the defeat method is written upon. These methods aren't a weakness, really, just a quirk specific to their nature. You can't ignore a whole group just because there's a Stoned Golem either.

E: With the English wording, you can use the Warrior ability. However, if the Greek wording says its bonuses from items, then you would not be able to use the Warrior ability when playing with the Greek version of the card. Yay for translation issues!

[dimious200]

Originally Posted by Clipper

For my thoughts (not official, but just for discussion purposes):

A: I'd say they'd all stay. There's nothing to indicate they should be retrieved or discarded. Although I am interested on an official ruling here, too.

C: The automatic defeat methods, such as the Amazon's are only for the monsters that the defeat method is written upon. These methods aren't a weakness, really, just a quirk specific to their nature. You can't ignore a whole group just because there's a Stoned Golem either.

E: With the English wording, you can use the Warrior ability. However, if the Greek wording says its bonuses from items, then you would not be able to use the Warrior ability when playing with the Greek version of the card. Yay for translation issues!

as long as i corrected all the errata with my magic pen i think it wont be difficult to corrrect this one too! :D but yes,translation should be better,i have noticed in other threads of the forum that other translations have mistakes too (like the translation of munchkin in French)