02-13-2018, 01:06 AM | #31 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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02-14-2018, 10:21 AM | #32 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
I would object to HT as a new attribute because it devalues ST. Currently, high ST allows a figure to use bigger weapons and take more damage. If you make HT the measure of hit points, then it becomes much tougher on fighters.
If your main issue is the Conan the Wizard problem, why not add "Mana" instead to power spells? That doesn't devalue ST, yet provides a different mechanism for Wizards to power their spells with. |
02-14-2018, 11:22 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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02-15-2018, 08:24 AM | #34 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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02-15-2018, 12:59 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
I was talking about the mana proposal, just to clarify!
I think HT is an obvious choice for literally dozens of reasons; but there seems to be a lot of hostility over it for some reason -- possibly because I'm some nobody and also the one suggesting it. (Were Rick or yourself to make the suggestion, it would suddenly become totally the thing to do.) It makes a lot more sense (since it's much more fundamental to the character) than adding a "Charisma" (or "presence") attribute, or splitting IQ to gain a "perception" attribute (which only applies in limited circumstances) and so on. Similarly converting XP to "character points" (which seems to me to be nothing more than renaming XP), or adding "talent points" (the effects of which could just as easily, and more simply, be obtained by doubling or trebling the number of talents/spells a character can learn by multiplying the number of IQ slots by two or three) seem pointless -- and aren't actually "attributes" at all, anyway. |
02-15-2018, 02:30 PM | #36 | |||
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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My issue with HT is that I don't want fighters to have to rely on 3 major attributes. Of course, Mana or Power avoids that. Quote:
As an aside, it seems to me that several attributes in other games can be replaced by a talent. Charisma is already replaced by the talents Charisma and Sex Appeal. Perception is partially addressed by Alertness and Acute Hearing. Of course, TFT still bases the latter off IQ rolls. Quote:
I've long held that every character should have a strongly defined role. I.e., he's the best in the party at *something* useful. I believe that this enhances player interest and party cohesion. Allowing too many "multiclass" characters can sabotage that. Of course, your mileage may vary. Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-15-2018 at 02:35 PM. |
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02-15-2018, 03:53 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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02-15-2018, 04:43 PM | #38 | ||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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I added an Endurance attribute in my first TFT campaign, about 1983, because I was adding in Gamelords' Traveller "The Desert Environment" which used one, and it was clear that hiking endurance (physical condition) should not be the same as Strength (because there were plenty of characters without high ST who marched around a lot, and plenty of big strong guys who weren't in good shape). However I treated it as a status level that just went up and down with your physical conditioning (in play, mainly from hiking or inactivity or illness) and wasn't part of experience or attributes. It felt like a really clunky add-on, and was only used for certain outdoor travel situations, but it filled a need for that distinction. Quote:
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02-15-2018, 05:35 PM | #39 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
I think the wish for HT stems from two similar problems: Conan the Wizard and Conan, Ph.D. Wizards want high ST for the casting ability, and warriors want high IQ for the talents.
Adding HT, for fatigue/mana, gives us another attribute to deal with. But we don't really have anything for warriors to use fatigue for, and if we want to base a wizard's casting ability on their physical condition we can as easily do that by adding a separate trackable mana resource, and starting it equal to their ST. We end up with marathon running wizards with high HT. Adding Talent Points to me seems like a better idea, but if it starts out equal to IQ then it's sort of masking the problem. Fighters have to start out pretty smart in order to be able to afford a decent amount of talents, and it's still a point sink. If it starts at 10, it would work okay, but I don't think quite ideal. I'm going to reiterate my previous suggestion. We expect warriors to have high ST, and be good at fighting, but not so good at the nerdy pursuits. We expect wizards to have high IQ, and to be good at spells and the nerdy pursuits, but not so good at the fighting. We can make the existing attributes do double duty. First, we make all the talents cost more in terms of talent points -- double them? Next, all characters choose an attribute at character creation; you have talent points to spend equal to that attribute. If you choose ST, you get a discount on the primarily fighting talents (the weapons-based ones, mainly, but also Warrior, Veteran, etc.; maybe things like Tactics as well). If you choose DX, you get a discount on the thief-type talents: Climbing, Stealth, Acrobatics, and so forth. If you choose IQ, you get a discount on the brainy talents (Literacy, any sciences, etc.) and also on spells and magic-related talents. Characters' hit points are always equal to their ST. Those who cast spells have a mana value equal to their IQ. If a wizard runs out of mana, they can continue to cast or maintain spells by burning ST, but this represents actual wounds. I can see at least one interesting new spell; call it Wizard's Shield. Cost is 3 to cast, 1 per turn to maintain, plus one point per point of damage stopped. For a wizard, essentially lets them turn their own mana into hit points. They can put it on a friend, though, and it protects them for the same cost.
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02-16-2018, 09:17 AM | #40 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: The Fourth Attribute...
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Health, however, solves not just the Conan the Wizard issue, but also the scrawny guy who can drink Conan under the table but can't even pick up his sword. Strong and Healthy are not synonyms, but TFT had them functionally so. ST should stay HP. HT takes fatigue use, not HP use. It also takes the resistance rolls. |
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