Parrying Tooth and Claw Attacks Redux

[Pagan]

For parrying damage, I use thrust damage only. Taking a page from Tip Slashing.

[Athanbeli]

I also apply any penalty to the defense roll (originating from deceptive attack, feint, confusion, anything) to the subsequent to hit (to strike the attacker's limb squarely) roll.
More often than not, that's not enough. But in the long run, it helps a bit.

One more thing. At the very end of the Aggressive Parry entry, MA states this:
Weapon parries against unarmed attacks are essentially aggressive “for free”; see Parrying Unarmed Attacks (p. B376).
I can't understand what this should mean, exactly.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

I also apply any penalty to the defense roll (originating from deceptive attack, feint, confusion, anything) to the subsequent to hit (to strike the attacker's limb squarely) roll.
More often than not, that's not enough. But in the long run, it helps a bit.

One more thing. At the very end of the Aggressive Parry entry, MA states this:
Weapon parries against unarmed attacks are essentially aggressive “for free”; see Parrying Unarmed Attacks (p. B376).
I can't understand what this should mean, exactly.

This came up in a project of mine; it means that the rules for aggressive parries are used for ALL unarmed attacks vs. weapons. If you try and punch someone, and he parries you with a club, axe, sword, or other weapon, you apply the rules for Aggressive Parry without having to (a) declare it, or (b) take a -1 penalty to defense.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

One more thing. At the very end of the Aggressive Parry entry, MA states this:
Weapon parries against unarmed attacks are essentially aggressive “for free”; see Parrying Unarmed Attacks (p. B376).
I can't understand what this should mean, exactly.

It means that Aggressive Parry is a technique for emulating the damage weapons get automatically against parry unarmed attacks for parries that don't normally get it.

or in other words Melee weapons against non judo/karate unarmed attacks don't need it they already get it.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

It means that Aggressive Parry is a technique for emulating the damage weapons get automatically against parry unarmed attacks for parries that don't normally get it.

or in other words Melee weapons against non judo/karate unarmed attacks don't need it they already get it.

Judo and Karate don't take a -3 to parry vs. weapons, but:

Basic Set (p. B376) says:

Originally Posted by Basic Set, p. 376

Parrying Unarmed Attacks: If you successfully parry an unarmed attack (bite, punch, etc.) with a weapon, you may injure your attacker. Immediately roll against your skill with the weapon you used to parry. This roll is at -4 if your attacker used Judo or Karate. If you succeed, your parry struck the attacker’s limb squarely. He gets no defense roll against this! Roll damage normally.

Judo and Karate are less likely to take damage when parrying vs armed, but there's still a chance. Also, note that RAW makes it far from automatic to take damage on a successful parry; it requires a skill roll (though odds are good; it's straight skill).

Martial Arts expands on this further:

Originally Posted by Harsh Realism for Unarmed Fighters, Martial Arts p. 124

The Basic Set treats unarmed combat favorably:there’s no “off” hand, Judo and Karate don’t have a penalty to parry weapons, and you can’t hurt yourself unless you strike DR 3+ or your opponent uses a weapon to parry your attack.

It explicitly lists an opponent using a weapon to parry your attack as a way of hurting yourself. This is very clear: RAW says that Judo/Karate don't take the -3 for parrying weapons, but DO suffer the default repercussions of being parried with a weapon - though at a much lower chance, since the attacker's hit roll on a successful parry is -4 to skill instead of straight skill.

The Harsh Realism box then goes on to suggest that it's more realistic to have Judo and Karate ALSO suffer the -3 to Parry, but that success by 0-3 means the Parry hits the limb instead. If you make your Parry by 0-3, you automatically take damage, instead of a skill roll.

[Rhino]

Looked over the rules last night. Thought about this house rule:

By default, all parrying damage to unarmed attackers is one-half SW (which is usually about the same as TH). However, to deal this damage to attackers using karate, judo or tooth/claws, you must make your parry by 4 or better (skill 20 gives you a 9 or less chance). That's it.

Gives you a chance to do damage, but allows martial artists and wild animals to engage in the cinematic combat I am looking for.

[Verjigorm]

You can have the animals use deceptive attacks and/or beats to make Parry's less effective.

[Athanbeli]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

You can have the animals use deceptive attacks and/or beats to make Parry's less effective.

Perhaps the average brawling levels for predators should be higher (mainly due to superior DX). Only by practicing and studying (improving melee weapon skills) men could achieve the same lethality.

Tigers with a meagre brawling 15 (as per campaigns; resulting in pathetic -2 deceptive in ordinary attacks) are doomed to get self-butchered by their victims' easy parries. I'd be ok with DX 17 - Brawling 20 tigers.

I'd also concede the same predators 1 extra attack.

[Rhino]

On a related note, I am having trouble finding the rules on how a Wolf or Dog would grapple using its jaws.

[Verjigorm]

It's in Martial Arts. You should get that book. :D