Making Resurrection cost

[Alden Loveshade]

To me, the most important aspects of something like that (losing 25 points when Resurrected) is that it be established before the campaign begins. Then players know ahead of time they have the option to do that or start over with a new PC. If it's done that way, I think it could work.

In the first full GURPS session I ran, which was a science fiction game, one of the PCs died--after the player did exactly what they should have done. I felt pretty bad about that.

By the notes I had handed out for that campaign before it began, there was such a thing as "life assurance" that could be paid to be brought back from the dead. The PCs could pay for it in advance, like life insurance, but no one did. Or they could pay after the fact, which was really expensive. The dead PC's NPC survivors had full price paid for Resurrection (which was extremely expensive), and his wealth level and point total dropped.

As partial compensation, I told the player that if he came up with in-game reasons/actions for his PC getting his wealth back up, I wouldn't charge him points for it. He did, and it wasn't too long before he was back to his previous level.

[Otaku]

Speaking from a (hypothetical) GM perspective:

If I was going to require a CP payment, first I'd allow it to be split among the person casting the resurrection, the character being resurrected, and anyone else willing to participate. It could be paid by one party, I'm just allowing the burden to be shared. It just seems like a way to further tie the party together, and if I want the player to have to bear the CP cost alone... as the GM one can arrange those circumstances. Otherwise, share the pain so fewer CP gaps develop, or just let them pay even more cash/favors/etc. for a the cleric and/or CP donors to bear the burden for them.

Yes, professional "CP donors" might exist; if I wasn't okay with it for that setting, I wouldn't allow it, and again, if that particular resurrection calls for it, they may be unavailable. ("No, the CP donors won't follow you to the fire of Mt. Doom. You'll have to trek all the way back to the city if you want their services." If the CP cost for Resurrection is 25, then expect to need to find 25 "Professional Mourners" (CP Donors) that are willing to gain a new Quirk or the like in exchange for that year's living wage. I mean, a year is enough to to maybe work off that Quirk, re-learn a lost skill, etc.

I'd probably insist that unspent Character Points are lost first. I'd prefer the rest be "spread around", with the character taking a small Disadvantage, a hit to a stat, forgetting recently learned skills, etc. Would I allow a player to take a big'ol -25 CP Disadvantage, or sacrifice 25 CP from one large enough trait? Sure, but I like the idea of several smaller changes more than a single big one.

Losing recently gained advantages and/or losing Skills seems the most inline with traditional RPG "logic", the GURPS equivalent of losing a Character Level or Experience Points. New Disadvantages (or increasing old ones) should probably reflect the death experience, though the tie can be pretty tenuous ("I died once, so my character is now even more Lecherous because he never knows when perma-death is coming!").

I'm also inclined to just allow "Point Debt" or temporary Disadvantages... and let me explain that last bit. "Temporary Disadvantages" are already a thing in GURPS, but I don't have a better term for it. Think of it as a Disadvantage which goes away on its own eventually. How is that not free points? The character is still suffering the burden of having a Disadvantage (don't allow it if they can just wait it out with zero repercussions) or Disadvantages, it is just they'll eventually "wear off" without the player having to cough up more CP. Of course, this means they won't be worth what taking the Disadvantage proper would give you.

For example, say dying in a stereotypical high fantasy setting leaves you with a "scent of death". Those able to sense such a thing may find it unpleasant (Reaction Penalty), and those who can sense it and are aligned in some way may see this as cheating death and want to rectify the situation (Unknown Enemy plus a different reaction penalty). Once you've been alive long enough, assuming you eschew activities that might reinforce the "scent of death", it goes away on its own... but until then, you're attracting extra undead, Necromancers, maybe even some of the normally "Lawful Good" (not that GURPS uses that mechanic) types if the resurrection was okayed through their source of power.

[Juan]

When playing fantasy settings we did not want to "punish" the player who had his PC dead.

But still we needed a sense of "loss" and the "It could not work this time" feeling to keep adventuring dangerous.

So... That is what we did: the PC loses all unspent CP. Then, resurrection "costs" one permanent HP and a HT roll is needed after all the rituals. On a miss, the PC did not made It anyway!

We made up the Resurrected quirk.
The PC gets one level for every resurrection he/she undergoes. The actual level is the negativos modifier for the post-resurrection roll.

[Edges]

In our DF-style games, resurrection is very rare. Death never occurs near town where the professional, high priests are to cast the spell.

So it is a resource management decision (like so many decisions in our DF games). Do we leave 250 lbs of loot to carry this guy back to town? If we do leave the loot, can we even afford to pay for the spell? If we try to carry the loot and the body, will we be slowed down so much that we won't have enough food to make it back? Do I even want to give up my share of the loot to resurrect that guy when I've had my eye on a shiny, new sword? My friend can always make a new character, after all. But this coin was hard-fought! Are we going to be able to properly defend ourselves if we are burdened by a body? We could be ambushed any time, you know. Is the smell of a rotting corpse going to attract even more monsters? Will it ruin our stealth? Is the stench going to keep us up at night? Are we even going to be able to keep the body intact on the long journey home with hungry dire wolves trying to make off with limbs or the threat of dropping it while climbing the Cliffs of Doom? Etc.

If the PCs go to all the trouble and expense of getting the body back to town and buying a resurrection, we've considered it already paid for. CPs don't need to come into it.

Granted, we haven't allowed the Food college yet and loot has been scarce and precious.

[bocephus]

I don't think I run a world (or play in one) that has access to those levels of magic where rez is something that I as a GM would consider game altering. If a character dies and the party feels its important to get that character back to the land of the living they do whats needed to make it happen. When its not easy, it became a story arc and went long term (The "wasn't suppose to die but the party decided to fight instead of pay ransom accidentally killing the" NPC, was the last heir to the throne that could prevent the world ending. The only sect that could perform the ritual needed the something of something from the lost temple of somewhere to be able to complete it).

I don't understand the idea that as a GM I allow rez to exist, but I don't want players to use it.... or I want it to carry a big penalty (cause I don't want them to use it "frivolously"). Then don't make it available. If the PCs have the cash to buy it, its because YOU gave it to them, if they have access to the priest its because YOU put him there, if they have the "Nice split hedge with a path down the middle" again YOU passed it out. You cant penalize players for using it how they choose because it doesn't fit your vision of how players should act. If you wanted to run a 'gritty' game where death is the end of that char so you best be careful, then do it, but be prepared to deal with the consequences. Sometimes you lose a player who doesn't want to make a new char (a GM should be able to assess this before it happens), sometimes you have to GM wave an improbable escape from near death for the char/group, sometimes someone loses an arm or leg instead of dying (in many magic worlds this is also temporary), sometimes you let them find a rez, and sometimes the player makes a new char and everyone moves on.

The fixation with "pulling them back from the realm of death" seems setting specific in my opinion. You as GM have decided that's where the char went when they died (I don't agree that its a given that's what happens but you're the GM). Why not Elysium, Why not wandering the planes, why not bound to the mortal plane as a spectator, why not just endless empty void... Your vision works for you apparently, but it seems the issue is more "If I let them have access to Rez death doesn't carry the penalty *I* want it to." Its not the spell effect, its the effect at the table your having a problem with... you feel like you want rez, but you dont want players being to cavalier with their tactics/survival because they have a get out of death card. You control that access and that expectation.

I feel like a solution you could use is to introduce a much more accessible limited 1 time Rez "I'm Not Dead Yet" (call it what ever you want ), this is good for X weeks. The first week the player can operate as normal, the second week all base stats drop by 1 and so on till a stat hits zero then they expire (of course they become useless long before that) and cant be rezed (Ever) and the spirit disintegrates or maybe they become some particularly nasty form of mindless undead. While under the effects of the spell all healing can be reduced (by what ever you like, Im a fan of half), and they count as Undead for interactions with Undead or char that can sense Undead (can be controlled/turned the same way).
In order to make it a permanent living resurrection (back to full stats, eventually) they need to find a caster/temple/dragon/macguffin to cast the full Monty for oodles of cash blah blah, special components blah blah, promises of first born, what ever... This will let your player continue on but know that there is a time limit and give them the chance to be a participant in the decision for how to deal with it, they might want to go out in a bang of glory and sacrifice for the group. Plus being undead for a time could also be useful for a multitude of reasons. Of course dying while under the effects of this spell also means perma effect whether that be "gone or undead".


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For me Rez is very setting specific, how I deal with it.

I have a sort of D&D flavor world that I allow rez with incremental disadvantage to having it happen again, I figure after about 5 times the chance of success drops to less than 30%. There would be conditions that could impose modifiers like being killed by an "evil" cleric could result in a god attempting to interfere. But in that setting the difficulty of the spell and the required ritual are penalty enough. And none of the PCs can cast it so they have to find someone to do it. Its part of the feel of the world and as such I wont penalize a char overmuch for using it. In this world I tend to take arms and legs and they have to spend time with the temporary disadvantage while it grows back.

I have another world thats much less magic heavy, and thus far its not ever been available (I dont think the PCs have even asked or heard of someone that can). Low level healing is relatively common though, so being a little bit careful goes a long way. Regeneration is a legend, it does exist (I have made provisions for it) but PCs dont have it or access to it yet. In that world it would be a party quest, full blown campaign arc, to make it a resurrection happen, if at all. I would probably allow the RAW for success or not if they got to a point it could be cast.

The few "no magic/low magic" settings I'm involved with don't have a way to bring back a dead PC beyond maybe as a ghost advisor, but other than asking the player for "how would you react to that request" it would be an NPC at that point. Dead in these worlds are dead.

I dont play/run "Classic Dungeon Crawls", I just dont appreciate the genre. So that isnt something I know about via experience.

Basically if you die, and rez isn't a thing, you make a new char. This is known upfront before we start playing though. I don't make them start completely over (thats boring for everyone) and I do allow them to "level" quicker for a time, BUT I do require that the new char not be a 2.0 copy of the old one (my verbiage is the new char must have significantly different skills to the old one and have no advantage level ties to your old char or previous intimate relationships I have allowed once, the player to become his former -5pt enemy that had been stalking him. This was a small group (3 players) that really needed a chunk of those lost skills to continue).
This has been the bigger problem between me and players that have to do this. They get into the mind set of being the sneaky scout and they keep wanting to make another version of the sneaky scout. In D&D terms... "Im not making an 11 level rogue assassin, THIS is a cleric to the god of death" (with 3 levels of cleric and 8 levels of rogue) "see completely different" /wink /wink ... no try again ....

[Evil Roy Slade]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I wouldn't forbid those "passion for life" disadvantages, but instead reframe them as a desperate (and possibly hopeless) desire to feel alive.

As someone who has been quite close to dying as a young adult, I can attest that it can give you a bit of carpe diem.