|
View Poll Results: DFRPG Future, as whished for by Forumites | |||
1) Just make more. | 37 | 22.56% | |
2) .pdf with POD support | 43 | 26.22% | |
2a) Seperate line. | 10 | 6.10% | |
2b) Integrate into the DF line | 67 | 40.85% | |
2c) Finish whats available, and end further production of new material. | 1 | 0.61% | |
3) Simply end all further production, and place resources in other projects. | 6 | 3.66% | |
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
02-16-2018, 01:31 PM | #51 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
"I strongly suspect you are wrong about this for a significant chunk of the market. DFRPG fills a role that GURPS DF, which I love and am three years deep in a huge campaign on, simply can’t."
I would be curious to read more on why you think this is - you already play DF - why would a changed, "rules-lite" help that? On the subject of adventures - I just concluded a short Pathfinder campaign, and the reason I quit [and, I suspect, the reason for the "railroady" adventures] is because of the necessary progression of characters on the class/level track; you can't reuse low-level monsters or challenges at later levels, because they are no threat or obstacle to the PCs, so you have to constantly elevate the levels, and write up new opponents/obstacles, and this doesn't encourage straying from a clearly defined path. I don't want to turn this into system wars - different strokes - but for me, GURPS offers a lot more leeway for making stuff up off the cuff and reusing opponents. And I'm looking forward to getting 5 new players into the game with a DF campaign. |
02-16-2018, 04:54 PM | #52 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: KC-1
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
These say it for me. Another vote for some sort of 3PP options.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
In failed campaigns, selfishness always demands that someone bears the blame. Had it not been for that someone, we would have been successful in everything. - Helmuth von Moltke |
|||
02-16-2018, 05:09 PM | #53 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: KC-1
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
I agree for what that is worth. Presentation might be important to some authors (mood, emphasis, clarity).
For those that don't have a strong opinion, then they have the template to use if they want - or if they are aiming to get published by SJGames or Pyramid, rather than 3PP. Quote:
__________________
In failed campaigns, selfishness always demands that someone bears the blame. Had it not been for that someone, we would have been successful in everything. - Helmuth von Moltke |
|
02-16-2018, 07:39 PM | #54 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southeastern PA
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Quote:
DFRPG, imho, is all that players need. If you are GMing, you will probably need additional material. |
|
02-16-2018, 07:45 PM | #55 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southeastern PA
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Quote:
And, as for adventures, I think any adventure path type will have those issues. Which is why I, personally, try to go for sandbox type of campaigns. A bit more work on my end but I find them much easier to GM and also introduce new PCs when needed. |
|
02-16-2018, 11:55 PM | #56 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
I'm sad to hear that DFRPG isn't meeting the bar for continuation and expansion. To be honest, I'm not shocked; as pleased as I am with the product, there's a flood of new products washing over us these days. If I weren't already a GURPS player, would I even have heard of DFRPG?
I have no insights on the health of actual product sales, but it's worth reading SJG's announcement closely, and looking at DFRPG's not-so-shabby showing among the company's top products. The boxed set is #6 by dollar volume, and the GM Screen #27. Note that there's only one GURPS product among the top 40, and it's below the DFRPG GM Screen! It looks to me like DFRPG isn't failing to deliver sales; it just carries too high a cost (money, time, attention) relative to those. (Or in terms we can all understand: Castle DFRPG is yielding a fair haul of gold pieces, manticore organs, and magical knick-knacks – but at a sacrifice of too many HP, paut potions, and mauled henchmen. The party has decided to seek out less costly dungeons.) (Side thought: I'd prefer to see DFRPG's category in the Report to the Stakeholders labeled "Disappointments", not "Failures". But financially, yeah, one's the same as the other.) == I have no idea whether more simplification, or a lower price, or a more detailed game background, or a different adventure, or a dozen other possible changes, would have helped. Such changes wouldn't have helped hugely, I suspect, if a market glutted with games means that just getting people's attention in the first place is the prime obstacle. One way to get attention, of course, is to grab more retail space with more product, and grab more online attention with more product announcements and reviews. That's where one suggestion in this thread comes through clearly: More published adventures! Non-GURPS newcomers in particular, I think, want published adventurers. Alas, it's chicken/egg: How to justify writing and publishing lots of adventures when the core product hasn't yet proven itself? It'd have meant even more resources and an even bigger gamble... I love the idea of freelancers* coming up with adventures, but I don't know what the point of publishing DFRPG adventurers would be if the market will never expand beyond buyers of the game's initial print run. == There's still DF, though; long may it live. More adventures for DF would be great. (And to anyone saying that there's but a bare handful now – Mirror, Pagoda, and the DFRPG Rat duology – I'd add a reminder that there are many more in Pyramid. I think commentators often forget about Pyramid when discussing support for the GURPS line.) Perhaps there can be no more official support for DFRPG, but I'd hate to see any buyers feeling burned by that. I guess what I'd like to see is this: Let ongoing DF support give some attention to DFRPG. That is, create DF supplements – adventures, especially – that would fit into DFRPG, with footnotes or sidebars on whatever changes or clarifications are needed. There shouldn't be too much to say; the two are hugely compatible as is. The same applies to bloggers: If you write any material for DF, it'd be great if you could gear it to work with both DF and DFRPG. (Minor example: I wrote an article suggesting new talents for the thief profession, taking care to include only skills included in both DF and DFRPG.) By doing this, it seems it'd be easy for SJG (and bloggers, etc.) to show ongoing support for DFRPG at very little cost, while easing them into the greater DF/GURPS world. In short, I hope gamers who aren't GURPS players but who bought DFRPG anyway will be able to appreciate that they didn't spend a lot on a one-shot product; they bought a great foothold into a hugely expansive, well-supported game system. == *Side thought on the discussion of SJG's WYSIWYG template for writers: I certainly empathize with those who wish it weren't MS Word. Still, I understand SJG's requirement that the file format support certain features, and that the software be something reasonably widespread; I can't blame the company for going with the lowest common denominator that does the job (and in this case, I do mean lowest). I'd like to see consideration of an Open Office preference in the future; in the meantime, I hope any potential new writers can just grit their teeth and plow through it. Quote:
I think that is something to pull in newbies: GURPS itself, without countless pages on high-tech gear and an Infinite Worlds background and a hundred options unrelated to old-fashioned dungeon delving. All demanding that you extract and organize the stuff you need, on your own. (Then again, just because I think lots of newcomers should want that, doesn't mean that a lot actually do...) Agreed 100%! I'm among the many who think that GURPS/DF/DFRPG does D&D better than D&D does. For me, there's just no better way to dungeon.
__________________
T Bone GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated) (Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.) Last edited by tbone; 02-17-2018 at 12:38 AM. |
|
02-17-2018, 12:43 AM | #57 |
Join Date: Jul 2006
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Every few months there's a "if this game would only have some published adventures, it would take off like a shot!" Yet, noone writes and submits these adventures.
Go back and look at the forums when Df came out and you'll see the same plantive cries, but I still don't see a bunch of DF adventures written by new authors. "But I don't have time to write adventures, so I just convert other games' adventures to GURPS/DF/DFRPG". OK, Let's make it easy - go find the folks that write the many Pathfinder or older edition D&D adventures and have them write the adventure then convert it to DFRPG and THEN pitch/submit it. This supposedly urning desire for adventures rings hollow. If there was a market for them people would be writing them and bugging the heck out of SJG to get them published. |
02-17-2018, 07:24 AM | #58 | |
Aluminated
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Quote:
And that's the lasting achievement of the DFRPG, I think. Yes, it won't be in stores, but the hard work of making "GURPS Medium" (for fantasy) has been done. The on-ramp to GURPS through a focused genre game has been built. And this is why I think the lasting sadness of it ending up too expensive to stick with is the very strong implication that we won't be seeing more on-ramps like this for sci-fi, supers, spies, and so on. I don't think I understand this. Open Office and Libre Office can use Word formats, and I've been using them to write using the SJ Games template for years. Are there notable differences between how Open/Libre Office works normally and when using Word templates? I haven't noticed any, though I don't work deeply with a lot of features.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs. Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit! |
|
02-17-2018, 09:10 AM | #59 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Quote:
I think there was a lot of hope, though, that DFRPG would attract a different kind of player – one not interested in "toolbox GURPS" but willing to buy an all-in-one game – and that this sort of newcomer would be more interested in published adventures. Or so I've heard some speculate. Either way, I think it'd be swell if more people would submit adventures*, but I don't know how badly SJG wants them. (I'll note that DF: Adventures and Adventures in general are on the GURPS Wish List. So are a lot of things...) *Yes, this makes me officially One of Those People Who Says 'I'd Like to See More Adventures' But Isn't Writing One. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
T Bone GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated) (Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.) |
|||
02-17-2018, 09:27 AM | #60 | ||
Aluminated
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
|
Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs. Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit! |
||
Tags |
dfrpg |
|
|