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Old 10-31-2018, 03:10 PM   #31
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

The last time I was in a game that ran on the murder-hobo loot economy, it was the inspiration for the line in my .sig. Most of the games I run and play in rely on monthly income for the main source of spending money, or we have a patron that gives us everything including spare ammo. Most of those games would be classified as Action, Monster Hunters, Sci-Fi, or Supers. (Not really sure how it'd work in an AtE game, though that is one of the few that a murder-hobo loot economy may work for playing nomadic raiders. It may not work in a Fallout-style Vault or Junktown/Hub type settement.)

However, I find the Wealth/Monthly Income/Status/Cost of Living breakdowns give odd results at TL10+, as at TL10 someone with a Poor monthly income can sustain a Status 0 lifestyle (a 1-2BR apartment in the good part of town or a small house), and at TL11 that same person can sustain a Status 1 lifestyle (which to us would be a luxury apartment or large house). Many of those settings that are TL10+ still have people living in abject poverty (Status -1, a run-down trailer or a place in the slums that needs serious repairs). Even with a x1/20 wealth modifier for a Very Poor rating, at TL11+ those people can still live at Status 0. So perhaps for those TLs we should consider a x1/100 modifier for "Wealth (Abject Poverty)" at the cost of Dead Broke [-25], and move Dead Broke to [-30]?
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:36 PM   #32
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

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But I'm also assuming that some of their wealth is likely to dissipate, like a lottery winner's masses of cash.
Even if they don't have the requisite Disadvantages?
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:55 PM   #33
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Even if they don't have the requisite Disadvantages?
What disadvantages are needed?
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:32 PM   #34
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What disadvantages are needed?
You're saying you're going to dissipate some of their resources "like a lottery winner's masses of cash".

Lottery winners only blow through cash when either they don't care* or they have some Disad that is Compulsive in nature (Gambling, Partying, Charitable, SoD (Family)† and a family with their hands out, etc).

There are plenty of lottery winners that save their winnings for a 'rainy day' (they don't invest and thus don't increase their Wealth) or actually manage to invest wisely and prosper. And some invest 'poorly' and end up worse off. However, only the prior paragraph really fits 'dissipation'.


In other words, if the PCs have the skills and mentality to hold on to their resources (or even invest wisely) are you going to 'dissipate' some of the wealth regardless?‡



* By don't care I also mean "doesn't pay attention". The winner who 'stops buying groceries and eats out for dinner every night' without noticing how fast that eats into his nest egg. Not the winners who decide to blow it all on a big vacation (they 'don't care' either, but they don't care in a different fashion) . But these aren't the types who end up worse off than when they started, they tend to end up right where they were, just they had "fun" for awhile.

† I did reading on this subject a while back (several research papers on Why Winning the Lotto is Bad type papers) and this was the number one reason that big winners often ended up in the hole. Well, this combined with "invests poorly", as in 'Family Member has a dream business and the Winner invests in that dream' which turns into a money pit as no one involved understands how to run a business.

‡ Honestly just interested, no judgment.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

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In other words, if the PCs have the skills and mentality to hold on to their resources (or even invest wisely) are you going to 'dissipate' some of the wealth regardless?‡
I don't know about Bill, but I will. If as a player you aren't willing to spend the points, as a character you apparently lack the wisdom and willpower to hold on to your wealth (this also applies to other things -- for example, I don't use training rules, I just use downtime xp).
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

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I don't know about Bill, but I will. If as a player you aren't willing to spend the points, as a character you apparently lack the wisdom and willpower to hold on to your wealth (this also applies to other things -- for example, I don't use training rules, I just use downtime xp).
My rule of thumb is that if they don't get points back for losing an arm in play or making an enemy, they don't have to pay points for a windfall either. (They could spend the points to make a windfall happen, though.)

Or rather, I adjust the PCs' point totals to reflect anything that happens in play, as well as allowing them to earn and spend XP. TBH, I'd prefer to do everything through in-play mechanics, but my players have informed me that they looooove spending XP, so that's the way it is.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:41 PM   #37
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My rule of thumb is that if they don't get points back for losing an arm in play or making an enemy
My rule is that losing an arm in play is normally assumed to be something that will be fixed in play, and if for some reason it becomes a permanent injury (disclaimer: I don't believe this has ever happened in a game I was running) they'd get points.

I do not use the Enemy disadvantage. An enemy on your character sheet is a suggestion of what sorts of plots you'd like to see, not a disadvantage.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:06 PM   #38
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

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My rule of thumb is that if they don't get points back for losing an arm in play or making an enemy, they don't have to pay points for a windfall either. (They could spend the points to make a windfall happen, though.)

Or rather, I adjust the PCs' point totals to reflect anything that happens in play, as well as allowing them to earn and spend XP. TBH, I'd prefer to do everything through in-play mechanics, but my players have informed me that they looooove spending XP, so that's the way it is.
Well, I do that, too. But with cash, the benefit is in the ability to spend it. They're perfectly free to spend it on things that don't cost character points, such as weapons, armor, clothing, food and drink, or the like. The PCs made a lot of money and are free to spend it.

In particular, while they were voyaging, I assumed that housing, food, water, beer, and incidental comforts were provided mostly by the ship they were on, and came out of its budget, or were restocked by going ashore to hunt, fill the water vessels, and so on. But now they're in their home port, and they're paying cost of living for their Status, varying from $75 a month for one of the ghouls to $1200 a month for the troll. So their funds are being depleted with time spent waiting for their new ship to be built.

What they pay the points for is not to have the cash, but to convert a suitable amount of the cash from a simple sum of money to a wealth level; for example, in Hanno's case, to dedicate $7500 to going from Wealthy to Very Wealthy. This means that if he gets married and buys a house, he'll have enough funds to furnish it appropriately.

There's also the option of buying property. For example, Nergul bought an inn, which she's converting into a residence (to be used secondarily as an inn when she's away). Since she owns a living place, she doesn't have to pay rent for one, and thus has that much cash freed up, and that can be defined as Independent Income.

The PCs are also putting $2300 each into buying a larger ship. That will give each of them Signature Gear 10, when the time comes.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:06 PM   #39
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Default Re: Wealth between Poor and Dead Broke

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My rule is that losing an arm in play is normally assumed to be something that will be fixed in play
While that isn't my exact philosophy that's generally how I view Advantages/Disadvantages acquired in the game. If your actions get your arm chopped off, or gain you an enemy or arouse another disadvantage we assume you're going to fix it in the game, you don't get points for the disadvantage and you won't have to spend points to get rid of it, it's just a placeholder, even if you take your sweet time holding that place.

If you gain an advantage, form bond with an ally, get a winfall of money, replace your missing arm with a baddass cyberarm. You can either pay for it on the spot, or pay for it before it goes awry. That loyal servant you didn't pay points for will sell you out in a second. Wealth you didn't have, the temperament to earn will be lost without the temperament to maintain it and those Cyberarms are just packed with recklessly engineered circuitry, literally anything could go wrong when you trick them out.
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