Good examples of Social Regards?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

My problem is rather when to use Social Regard instead of everything else. A generally practicing physician has a ph.d, so should he have high Status or Social Regard?

Why would it be OR? He lives in a nice house, drives a nice car, has a summer house in the country, plays golf every weekend, and belongs to an exclusive gentlemans club - he's obviously Status 1 or 2. But even a not-wealthy physician working in Ontario, where doctors might pull down six figures, but they spend much of it on running their practices, gets respect. The rich doctor has Social Regard AND Status one or two. The middle-class doctor living in a boring house in a suburb has Social Regard, but not Status.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Should some kind of clergy, perhaps in societies with informal or nonexistent religious hierarchies, have Social Regard instead of Religous Rank?

I'd say Catholic monks mostly have Social Regard instead of Clerical Investment or Religious Rank. They're not actually ordained, they're just sort of nebulously "holy". Obviously there are monks with a little bit of Religious Rank, but I don't think they get to have too much, compared to the priests who go all the way up to Pope in rank.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

What about the old Keltic society, where you have the Learned Class, including not just Bards and Druids and Christian priests, but also smiths? Is that Status or Religous Rank or is it Social Regard (Tonsured member of the Learned Classed)?

The smith probably doesn't have Religious Rank, unless there's something about the celts that I didn't know; They definitely have Social Regard, and if the smith lives better than the average member of his society and gets treated more like the favorite men of the chief, then yes, he's probably got some Status.

The Druids would have Clerical Investment, Religious Rank, and Social Regard: Learned Class; ditto the Christians, although obviously they have a different rank structure from the Druids, and the early missionaries might have no significant Rank to speak of, just Clerical Investment and Social Regard.

I have no idea how organized the real Bards were, so I can't speak to them.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Often, taken Social Regard in addition to something else is expensive and results in a higher Reaction Roll bonus than what is really warranted.

edit: Reputation is also a possibility, as something that one might take instead of Social Regard. I really think some Krommly guidance would be useful here.

Reputation is because you are Karl the Dragonslayer, who slew that dragon that one time, not because you're a knight, or old, or holy. It's a personal relationship between you and society - society has a problem with (or a fondness for) You, Karl, not a whole class of people (that happens to include Karl).

All your examples appear to be for classes of people, not for individuals, so I'd say Reputation definitely doesn't apply.

I'd also note that some people can act in ways that result in people no longer respecting them. Generally people cut old folks a lot of slack (old men get away with TONS in the "flirting with young women" department) but if you're literally dirty, wearing a tea cosey on your head, kleenex boxes instead of shoes, and pushing a stolen shopping cart full of kewpie dolls, I am NOT going to engage in a little charming banter with you. I'm going to run the hell away from your crazy old self, and possibly call social services because I'm amazed you're out unsupervised.

How much of that is an enormous reaction penalty for being batpoop insane overwhelming a +1 or +2 for being old, I can't say.

[khorboth]

I've pondered this question too, and I have a few ideas:

In an evil campaign set in a D&D world, ogres would have social regard because they're considered superior to orcs (baseline).

In Chronicles of Riddick, the Elemental had regard; even the bad guys treated her with respect.

In Niven's A Gift From Earth, everybody could instantly tell "crew" apart from "colonist" and gave them higher privileges because of it.

In Dragonlance, the draconian races had a clear hierarchy dependent only on what type they were.

In the Heralds of Valdemar series, Adepts generally had white hair and were readily identified and respected.

I don't see this as the best way to model most things on Earth because the character is supposed to be recognized immediately regardless of things like clothing or location. Usually, when we have separated people by anything so obvious, it has been to subjugate rather than to venerate.

[Gedrin]

To borrow something we're likely to hear a lot upcomming, if you hear the phrase "I respect his service, but..." that's social regard. You can't just go out and blast someone because it could be percieved as an attack on the well regarded group, so you have to acknowledge the source of the regard before blasting the person.

[Tommi_Kovala]

Originally Posted by Molokh

What's that?

It's a Russian alternative newspaper. At least their online edition is in English.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

To borrow something we're likely to hear a lot upcomming, if you hear the phrase "I respect his service, but..." that's social regard. You can't just go out and blast someone because it could be percieved as an attack on the well regarded group, so you have to acknowledge the source of the regard before blasting the person.

A very good point. I agree here.
...
To go along with Bruno, there's no reason one can't have Status AND Rank AND Wealth AND Social Regard. Look at Pope Benedict, he's got gobs of Status, Wealth, and Religious Rank, but I'd argue he's got Social Regard (Priest), too. Watch how other world leaders, including the U.S. President who ostensibly have more power and authority tend to defer to him a little when he's around or has something to say.

Which is not to say that people with Social Regard never get treated badly. It's only a +1 to +4 on a Reaction roll, after all, and one can still get a bad reaction from time to time.
...

Originally Posted by Sanity

Anakin is not treated frankly for anything he is as a person, but for him being a Jedi knight

I would argue that right there means he has Social Regard (Jedi Knight) in GURPS terms.

I'm thinking specifically of Anakin before and during the first half of Episode 2. He's never held rank in any military organization and commands no troops, Jedi or otherwise. So GURPS Military Rank is right out. He doesn't have apprentices or minions - he still is an apprentice, so Religious Rank isn't likely to be more than 0 (which doesn't come with any Status). We don't see his lifestyle much outside of being a Jedi, but I don't think there's any social influence or position that accrues to Anakin himself, outside of being a Jedi. So I don't think independent Status is correct. Yet people defer to him, because he is a Jedi. I would argue that in doing so, they are aknowledging his Social Regard.

Once the Clone Wars start, then Jedi start leading troops on a regular basis, so Anakin likely gains Status and Military Rank doing that. Then he begins being appointed to positions in the government by Palpatine, which probably raises his Status. By midway through Episode 3, all he's lacking is the Religious Rank he craves. So I certainly agree that he gains these things. But he (and all Jedi) still have their Social Regard.

[vicky_molokh]

Did you notice that all except the very few examples are from fictional worlds?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Did you notice that all except the very few examples are from fictional worlds?

But we do a lot of playing in fictional worlds.

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Did you notice that all except the very few examples are from fictional worlds?

That's hardly surprising. Fictional worlds have much simpler social dynamics than the real world, and are more easily and consistently modeled. My experience is that fictional settings tend to have fewer edge cases or other inconsistencies.

Still there are numerous real-world examples presented:
The elderly
Civil servants in uniform (several examples)
Priestly and Monastic orders in traditional dress (several examples)

In countries where ethnic minorities enjoy the same legal protections as the ethnic majority, it might be more appropriate to give the majority a social regard, instead of giving the minority a social stigma. One can surely think of several examples here as well.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

But we do a lot of playing in fictional worlds.

Yep.

--

The trait occasionally shows up in real life, so it isn't marked exotic or supernatural . . . but more often than not in RPGs, it's a de facto exotic or supernatural trait. The rarity of uniform Social Regard in our world doesn't invalidate it as a game concept, though. It doesn't particularly matter whether elderly people are consistently venerated everywhere on modern-day Earth; what matters is that they're often venerated by everyone in make-believe worlds, like fantasy settings. Social Regard is the ideal trait for avatars and messiahs, elder or mythic races, gods and demigods, men/women in patriarchies/matriarchies that exalt the dominant sex rather than repress the other sex, wizards in worlds where they're respected and visibly marked, etc. In my own campaign, for instance, the Amazon race has Social Regard (even their foes respect their mythic status and warmaking skills) and so do the avatars, vessels, and messiahs of divinities.

[Gedrin]

It seems all "Social Regards" are limited to their on society, but there are probably other limiters as well.

In the USA soldiers have Social Regard with most, but not all, the nation. Similarly the police, firefighters and teachers.

Elders have Social Regard in most cultures.

There are probably an entire class of Ex-X's that have Social Regard. Ex-Presidents jump to mind. WWII Veterans is another.

Olympic Athlete.


The more I think about it I'm pretty sure the best way to identify a Social Regard is the "I admire the profession/service/class of people, but..." statement.

I'm not sure about things like "Superbowl Champion" or "Hall of Famer".