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Old 01-01-2010, 04:31 PM   #1
pst
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default One Eye

I'm wondering how people have played the One Eye trait. The description says "You suffer -1 to DX in combat and on any task involving hand-eye coordination". Would you recalculate Parry and Block from the decreased level of Melee Weapon and Shield (so -1 if even before)?

Is anyone not subtracting one for all combat? I'm considering not doing that for Fast-Draw, and not doing it in close combat at all since I imagine it isn't such a big disadvantage then.

The text continues "and -3 on ranged attacks (unless you Aim first)". But if you aim there is no minus at all for One Eye (so by aiming you gain Acc+3)?
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:26 PM   #2
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by pst View Post

The text continues "and -3 on ranged attacks (unless you Aim first)". But if you aim there is no minus at all for One Eye (so by aiming you gain Acc+3)?
Some people actually close one eye when they aim.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:34 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by pst View Post
The description says "You suffer -1 to DX in combat and on any task involving hand-eye coordination". Would you recalculate Parry and Block from the decreased level of Melee Weapon and Shield (so -1 if even before)?
I don't quite understand your last parenthetical comment, but to answer the general question, yes, you apply the -1 penalty to weapon/shield skill, then calculate parry or block. So if you normally have Shield-14, your block would normally be 10, but with One Eye, it's 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pst
and not doing it in close combat at all since I imagine it isn't such a big disadvantage then.
Don't forget that having only one eye will give you a big "blind spot" on the side without the eye, since you don't have any peripheral vision on that side. I assume that that's where most of the melee penalty comes from, actually - the fact that opponents can stay on your bad side, making it harder to anticipate their attacks and target them for your own. I wouldn't remove the penalty for close combat, either, because a punch is just as bad when it comes from your blind side as a sword thrust.
I could, however, see removing the penalty for grappling, since at that stage you're going to be doing a lot more by touch rather than sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pst
The text continues "and -3 on ranged attacks (unless you Aim first)". But if you aim there is no minus at all for One Eye (so by aiming you gain Acc+3)?
The penalty for ranged combat is because it's hard to judge distances with only one eye and no binocular vision. But our brain has other ways of calculating distance - comparison to the background, shifting slightly to get parallax, etc. They just take longer than binocular vision does. Taking an Aim action lets you use those techniques, and cancels the penalty.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #4
pst
 
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I don't quite understand your last parenthetical comment, but to answer the general question, yes, you apply the -1 penalty to weapon/shield skill, then calculate parry or block. So if you normally have Shield-14, your block would normally be 10, but with One Eye, it's 9.
Thanks, that's how I meant with my cryptical parenhetical comment. ("-1 to defense it the skill was even before the penalty")

Quote:
Don't forget that having only one eye will give you a big "blind spot" on the side without the eye, since you don't have any peripheral vision on that side. I assume that that's where most of the melee penalty comes from, actually - the fact that opponents can stay on your bad side, making it harder to anticipate their attacks and target them for your own.
On the other hand One Eye is meant both for two-eyes creatures having lost one eye, and for creatures with one cyclopean eye. I think you would have to add a one-sided Restricted Vision on top of One Eye if you want to have such an effect. (-50% for only affecting one side?)

Quote:
I wouldn't remove the penalty for close combat, either, because a punch is just as bad when it comes from your blind side as a sword thrust. I could, however, see removing the penalty for grappling, since at that stage you're going to be doing a lot more by touch rather than sight.
I guess I think of grappling when I'm talking about Close Combat, since I haven't had much of people standing and just punching each other. But I'm wondering if not a lot more is done by touch rather than sight in Close Combat even when not grappling. Would one eye be such a big disadvantage when Slamming or when Shoving for instance?
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:42 PM   #5
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by pst View Post
On the other hand One Eye is meant both for two-eyes creatures having lost one eye, and for creatures with one cyclopean eye. I think you would have to add a one-sided Restricted Vision on top of One Eye if you want to have such an effect.
I don't think it's as severe a limitation as the full Restricted Vision disad - you're probably loosing 15% of your field of peripheral vision or less. Enough to penalize you, but not enough for the full-blown disad. I think it's reasonable to apply the same to cyclopean creatures, since their eye is usually set in the midpoint of their head. They should lose some peripheral vision that way, just because the head effectively cuts off a little more of their field of view than it would for someone with binocular vision.
In any case, the penalty is also to represent that you will still have trouble judging distances, even when something is up close. If you can't touch it, you can't feel where it is, and if you're not grappling, you're not touching things most of the time.

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Originally Posted by pst
I guess I think of grappling when I'm talking about Close Combat, since I haven't had much of people standing and just punching each other. But I'm wondering if not a lot more is done by touch rather than sight in Close Combat even when not grappling.
I don't think it is. Remember, any fistfight you've ever seen between two humans is being fought at Close Combat range, because fists only have a Reach of "C". Think of a boxing match - how often are they touching the opponent, except to actually hit them?

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Originally Posted by pst
Would one eye be such a big disadvantage when Slamming or when Shoving for instance?
Well, I think it's at least arguable that not being able to judge distances accurately will still give you some penalty for either of those. If you don't judge the distance accurately, you might end up exerting your maximum force either before or after the optimal time.
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: One Eye

If you've got One Eye and want to get around that -1 penalty when it comes to grappling by representing a person who is feeling their opponent physically, then you need to get the skill Sensitivity (MA62).

Last edited by trooper6; 01-01-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #7
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by pst View Post
I'm wondering how people have played the One Eye trait. The description says "You suffer -1 to DX in combat and on any task involving hand-eye coordination". Would you recalculate Parry and Block from the decreased level of Melee Weapon and Shield (so -1 if even before)?

Is anyone not subtracting one for all combat? I'm considering not doing that for Fast-Draw, and not doing it in close combat at all since I imagine it isn't such a big disadvantage then.

The text continues "and -3 on ranged attacks (unless you Aim first)". But if you aim there is no minus at all for One Eye (so by aiming you gain Acc+3)?
I'm effectively one-eyed (No Depth Perception, being wall-eyed, and one eye being extremely near-sighted), and while I don't have the Fast-Draw skill, I consider it absurd to penalize it for lack of depth perception.

Also in both my homebrew RPGs, I've opted for treating One Eyed/NDP somewhat differently from GURPS. There's no penalty in melee combat (I thik this fits, because if you're up close and personal with someone with a gross body structure you're martially familiar with, e.g. another bipedal humanoid), you have a pretty good idea of where his parts are even without depth perception. Instead, range penalties are simply doubled for thrown weapons, missiles and spells.

Of course, both my homebrew RPGs give weapons range increments, rather than using a universal range penalty table like GURPS, and it may well be that my take on it isn't very realistic (I have no experience with gun/rifle shooting or archery, nor casting Bolt-type spells), and perhaps the penalty should go away after some kind of Aim activity provided the weapon is one that does not "drop" significantly from gravity (more like a rifle than a bow) ,but I definitely dislike the penalty to melee combat.

I think it's a bit like table tennis. I see the ball bouncing, which helps me to figure out 100% where in 3D space it is, whereas in tennis I often need the hit the ball before it hits the ground, which means I'm unable to figure it out.

A melee combatant is grounding by his two (or four, or three, or whatever) feet, which helps me understand where he is spatially, so I can't see why I'd have any trouble hitting him, relative to someone with depth perception.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:28 PM   #8
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: One Eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I don't quite understand your last parenthetical comment, but to answer the general question, yes, you apply the -1 penalty to weapon/shield skill, then calculate parry or block. So if you normally have Shield-14, your block would normally be 10, but with One Eye, it's 9.
So someonw with Shield 13, or any other value, is not penalized for OE or NDP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Don't forget that having only one eye will give you a big "blind spot" on the side without the eye, since you don't have any peripheral vision on that side.
AFAIK No Depth Perception works 100% the same as One Eye, in GURPS, except there's no reaction roll penalty, but I don't have a blind spot for my weak/secondary eye, so that's wrong.

It does make sense for One Eye proper, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I assume that that's where most of the melee penalty comes from, actually - the fact that opponents can stay on your bad side, making it harder to anticipate their attacks and target them for your own. I wouldn't remove the penalty for close combat, either, because a punch is just as bad when it comes from your blind side as a sword thrust.
I could, however, see removing the penalty for grappling, since at that stage you're going to be doing a lot more by touch rather than sight.
I'd say remove the -1 DX penalty for NPD, both for regular melee combat and grakppling. This necessitates altering the point value of the disad, though, and IIRC it is presently -10 CPs. Lowering it to -5 CPs would be going too far, but -7 or -8 CPs might work. (I've never approved of SJ Games' rampant pentophilia anyway)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
The penalty for ranged combat is because it's hard to judge distances with only one eye and no binocular vision. But our brain has other ways of calculating distance - comparison to the background, shifting slightly to get parallax, etc. They just take longer than binocular vision does. Taking an Aim action lets you use those techniques, and cancels the penalty.
Sure, or if the foe is relatively close and standing on the ground, or the table tennis ball is bouncing, except in those cases it doesn't take longer.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #9
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Well, I think it's at least arguable that not being able to judge distances accurately will still give you some penalty for either of those. If you don't judge the distance accurately, you might end up exerting your maximum force either before or after the optimal time.
This makes sense, but I'm still opposed to a penalty on melee weapon combat and regular unarmed combat. Then again, I'm ever so slightly careful when I put down a glass or mug, in a place other than my own home. Don't want to destroy anything or make a noise, exactly because I might misjudge the distance to the table's surface by a few centimeters.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:58 PM   #10
pst
 
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Default Re: One Eye

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
AFAIK No Depth Perception works 100% the same as One Eye, in GURPS, except there's no reaction roll penalty, but I don't have a blind spot for my weak/secondary eye, so that's wrong.
Even though it says the game effects are identical, I guess one difference still is that you will become Blind if you lose one eye with One Eye, but with No Depth Perception you can lose one eye "for free". I guess that's not a difference big enough to justify a point difference though.

Quote:
I'd say remove the -1 DX penalty for NPD, both for regular melee combat and grappling. This necessitates altering the point value of the disad, though, and IIRC it is presently -10 CPs. Lowering it to -5 CPs would be going too far, but -7 or -8 CPs might work. (I've never approved of SJ Games' rampant pentophilia anyway)
Actually it's -15 now, which seems somewhat cheap to me when you consider that the package +1 DX, One Eye, -0.25 Basic Speed costs 0 points and gets +1 DX for some non-combat uses, with the only real drawback being worse snapshots in range combat.



Sure, or if the foe is relatively close and standing on the ground, or the table tennis ball is bouncing, except in those cases it doesn't take longer.[/QUOTE]
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