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Old 02-26-2017, 02:25 AM   #31
sir_pudding
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
It already includes Easy to Kill/Subdue, Susceptible to poison/diseases etc.
Sure, but what does the double FP cost apply to? The answer probably isn't "nothing". It might be "everything" or "everything except spells" and I think a literal reading, at least supports this.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Okay, I may have phrased my original point badly. I think that Unfit, as written, is underpriced.
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Old 02-26-2017, 08:13 AM   #33
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

IMO, Unfit applies to all non-Supernatural FP expenditures, just as Very Fit does.

It's just that unlike Very Fit, you can always double a 1 into a 2, where Very Fit often doesn't affect Extra Effort in Combat.


And yes, Anders, just like Megalomania, I think Unfit is deliberately underpriced.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:22 PM   #34
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

I suspect it is underpriced because it is an "everyman" disadvantage that many modern people should have, and it needs to fit in a -12 point disadvantage limit.
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Old 03-01-2017, 01:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

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Originally Posted by Edges View Post
The Unfit disadvantage says that you lose FP at twice the normal rate. What does this apply to?
Any FP lost to natural conditions, such as exertion, environmental effects, and otherwise pushing your body too hard. It doesn't affect FP spent on spells or similar powered abilities, nor does it increase the FP loss when you're hit with a Fatigue Attack.

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Does it apply to Extra Effort?
Yep.

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Does it matter if the Extra Effort is in or out of combat?
Sort of. Combat-related Extra Effort involves quantum expenditures of 1 FP over a period of time that is effectively instantaneous. And some non-combat uses do work the same way. But if an out-of-combat use instead covers a measurable span of time (e.g., Extra Effort that costs 1 FP per minute), Unfit instead doubles the rate by halving the time (that is, that theoretical example would become 1 FP per 30 seconds, not 2 FP per minute).

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It says it applies to FP lost due to heat. Does this imply that it also applies to FP lost to other hazards like sleep debt, hunger, and thirst? Does it apply to the FP lost at the end of combat?
Yes, those are all examples of pushing your body too hard. An Unfit character is terrible at doing such things.
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Old 03-01-2017, 02:18 AM   #36
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Ouch. At this point Unfit seems extremely nasty for [-5]. Especially compared to just getting -1 FP [-3] and Easy to Kill 1 [-2].
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Thanks PK!

Vicky_molokh, would this explanation qualify for the uFAQ? There did seem to be a bit of confusion before PK cleared it up.
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Old 03-01-2017, 02:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

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Ouch. At this point Unfit seems extremely nasty for [-5]. Especially compared to just getting -1 FP [-3] and Easy to Kill 1 [-2].
For that reason, I don't think I'll apply it to extra effort in combat (assuming I ever see a PC with it). I think it's overkill for -5 points, the other penalties easily are worth 5 pts of inconvenience, and when I allow EE it tends to be a big part of the game. I would probably give -5 or -10 for no EE in combat by itself based on my games. Either that or bump Unfit up to -10 or -15 because it would be roughly equivalent to -3 to -5 fatigue.
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:35 PM   #39
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

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For that reason, I don't think I'll apply it to extra effort in combat (assuming I ever see a PC with it). I think it's overkill for -5 points, the other penalties easily are worth 5 pts of inconvenience, and when I allow EE it tends to be a big part of the game. I would probably give -5 or -10 for no EE in combat by itself based on my games. Either that or bump Unfit up to -10 or -15 because it would be roughly equivalent to -3 to -5 fatigue.
At - 10 it is the only disadvantage a regular person might have, and at - 15 it is now solely a disadvantage of more capable characters. Reluctant Killer plus Unfit and two Quirks is already -12 points for your everyman.
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

I agree that Unfit is fine at -5 - all the stuff it penalizes are either stuff you can choose to avoid (e.g., Extra Effort), or they're things that a lot of Unfit character concepts can avoid (wizards who levitate everywhere, nobles with servants to carry them about, and so on). Too much higher, and it would be more "free points" for the sort of character who would take it. Also, keeping it at -5 makes it much easier to buy off, which is an important thing, I think. The narrative arc of "out-of-shape individual goes on an adventure, gets into much better condition" is, while hardly a defining concept, still a pretty common one. Too much more expensive, and I think you'd just see a lot of characters not take Unfit at all, rather than taking it and buying it off over a couple of sessions.

However, that said...

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
At - 10 it is the only disadvantage a regular person might have, and at - 15 it is now solely a disadvantage of more capable characters. Reluctant Killer plus Unfit and two Quirks is already -12 points for your everyman.
I don't think using a disadvantage limit as the logic makes much sense for this. Disadvantage limits are an optional rule in the first place, and I don't believe they're intended for NPCs in any case - NPCs should just have whatever disadvantages make sense for the their character concept. Even if we're talking about very low-value player characters, I don't think using "half your character point total" as the disadvantage limit makes much sense. The "half your total" rule breaks down at either high or low point values. For a character built on 25 points, I'd just use -25 points, or even higher, as the disad limit.
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