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Old 09-01-2019, 03:26 PM   #1
David L Pulver
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Default How Many High-IQ Wizards?

In Cidri in large cities (such as Dran) I am wondering how many powerful wizards should exist! Specifically, in a city of 15,000 people, such as Dran, the largest on a map the size of Southern Elyntia...

Outside of player character adventurer parties...

... How IQ 15-16 wizards (capable of using potent spells like Create Gate, Long Distance Telepathy and Teleport) are reasonable?

... How many IQ 17-18 wizards (capable of potent spells like Summon Demon, Lesser Magic Item creation) are reasonable?

... How many IQ 19-20 wizards (capable of spells such as Revival, Greater Magic Item Creation or Zombie) are reasonable?

... What do you think the wizard to non-wizard population ratio is?

I'm working on some TFT material for publication, and am curious what people think best fits their conception of the settled areas of Cidri.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

I should think very few high IQ wizards.

IQ 15+ maybe 2-3% of the total wizard population
IQ 17+ 0.25-0.5%
IQ 19+ 0.01% or less

I also favor what I suspect others might think is a low wizard:mundane ratio, something like 1:100, and probably 80% of those those will have an IQ of 10 or less.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:37 PM   #3
David L Pulver
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
I should think very few high IQ wizards.

IQ 15+ maybe 2-3% of the total wizard population
IQ 17+ 0.25-0.5%
IQ 19+ 0.01% or less

I also favor what I suspect others might think is a low wizard:mundane ratio, something like 1:100, and probably 80% of those those will have an IQ of 10 or less.
A ratio of 1-100 is also fairly equivalent to the ratio of professional soldiers (huscarls, knights errant, mercenaries, palace guards, etc.) who spend most of their time on duty or training in many historical societies. (Expect that to expand by 5-7 times with a seasonal call up or mobilization of militia, levies, citizen soldiers or whatever).
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

I've tried to run the numbers for the wizards of Dran and they all get sucked into jobs just running the place. There simply aren't any wizards available for random encounters.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/wizards_dran.html
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I've tried to run the numbers for the wizards of Dran and they all get sucked into jobs just running the place. There simply aren't any wizards available for random encounters.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/wizards_dran.html
Very interesting numbers. (By Dran you're counting just the dutchy, and not all of southern Ellyntia, right?

The reason I ask is that it seems very possible that Dran, as the wealthiest regional area and probably he best school, acts to suck both the most promising students ("send you away to Dranning") and best extra high-end talent away from surrounding areas (much like, say, Hollywood does actors). Local rulers probably take action to mitigate this, but it's likely an effect...

I also wonder how the choice of a formalized "wizards' school setup" affects this? If well run it may increase the number of children who learn to be wizards and allow efficient use of apprentices (cheap labor, as you say). On the other hand, it's also possible that wizardry requires less complex training. Perhaps at least some of the 6-15 year period can either be self-taught or be taught without requiring a wizard -- (or is passed from wizard parent to wizard child as a family background). That is, the basics could be purely academic preparation (e.g., reading the right books, understanding certain songs, etc.) plus a huge helping of innate ability. In other words, perhaps, anyone with, say, Literacy or Bard might be able to do the teaching of a young wizard; in noble or well off families with books, this might even be self-taught, and this gives them the ability to reach, say, IQ 8-10 spells, perhaps higher if they do well and come to a real wizard's attention. At some point between age 13-16 those with real ability are directly apprenticed to a wizard, with most wizards having 2-5 apprentices depending on how much they are into the large circle enchanting...

Of course, we DO know wizard schools of the formal sort exist (cf. T'Reo School in Wizard) and it is quite possible Dranning indeed has one, and if so, it's likely more efficient in raising better mages. it may be possible to assume that the majority of places on Cidri lack such schools, at least in any real professional fashion. (Especially advanced ones: for much of the middle ages, Europe and the Islamic world managed about one university for every 25 million people...)
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

TFT limits spellcasting to the available pool of humanoid ST and restricts apprentice jobs to wizards. If you have mass Drain ST drives, or teach a lot of non-wizards the Aid spell it changes things.

One concept I've rejected for Revoreesh is to make him a ghost haunting his fifty foot tall staff tower. Assume that he is the IQ 24 wizard researching those IQ 20 spells.

Also what model do you use for XP/year for NPCs? I get around 38 attributes at most before humans age out.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

The number, power and motives of magical people and beings has such a powerful impact on the progress of a fantasy roleplaying game that I can't imagine conforming to someone else's idea of how your setting is supposed to go. Ergo, there are as many powerful wizards in the Duchy of Dran as I need to have be in the Duchy of Dran.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Ergo, there are as many powerful wizards in the Duchy of Dran as I need to have be in the Duchy of Dran.
EXACTLY! Each of us has his/her own ideas of what our worlds and the Duchy of Dran are like.

I've seen statistical estimates of how many wizards there should be, but it's only someone else's interpretation. Everyone should do their own thing.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The number, power and motives of magical people and beings has such a powerful impact on the progress of a fantasy roleplaying game that I can't imagine conforming to someone else's idea of how your setting is supposed to go. Ergo, there are as many powerful wizards in the Duchy of Dran as I need to have be in the Duchy of Dran.
Exactly right. RPGs are "story games" so we create what we need as background to play with the story. Some GMs like to have every detail mapped out for them, both in the rules and in adventures. I'd rather create my own stories along with the players.

So, as Lars says, I'll have as many high level Wizards (or anything else) as I feel I need for the story I'm setting out for the players.
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: How Many High-IQ Wizards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The number, power and motives of magical people and beings has such a powerful impact on the progress of a fantasy roleplaying game that I can't imagine conforming to someone else's idea of how your setting is supposed to go. Ergo, there are as many powerful wizards in the Duchy of Dran as I need to have be in the Duchy of Dran.
Bear in mind the question was 'for publication'. A published sourcebook doesn't know how many powerful wizards a given campaign needs, so it should include a number that works well for most campaigns set in that setting.
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