GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Adventure 1: Mirror of the Fire Demon

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Steven Marsh

GURPS Big Lizzie and GURPS Lair of the Fat Man -- both ready-to-use adventures -- are among the lowest-selling GURPS Fourth Edition supplements on e23.

Big Lizzie has sold 195 copies, Lair of the Fat Man 236. That's all-time. Mirror of the Fire Demon has sold 141 copies in the first three days. Both the two older adventures sold 48 copies in their first three days on the market.

I thought I'd compare this supplement and the last few Dungeon Fantasy supplements, in the first three days of release, to get an idea of how well it is selling.

Supplement Name / Release Date / Sales

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners / 14jan2010 / 153
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 10: Taverns / 25feb2010 / 138
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 11: Power-Ups / 5aug2010 / 132
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 12: Ninja / 26aug2010 / 119
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 1 / 2june2011 / 168
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 13: Loadouts / 14july2011 / 120
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 14: Psi / 4aug2011 / 105
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Adventure 1: Mirror of the Fire Demon / 12jan2011 / 141

Somehow, I knew that Monsters 1 would lead the pack.

The current adventure stacks up well. It's less than Monsters 1, which anyone would guess (the traditional core of That Other Game is the Players Handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual, and this is one of that three), as well as Summoners, but higher than the others.

As a prophecy for future sales, here are the sales in the first month (31 days) for these, other than the one giving the title for this thread:

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners / 14jan2010 / 290
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 10: Taverns / 25feb2010 / 252
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 11: Power-Ups / 5aug2010 / 268
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 12: Ninja / 26aug2010 / 220
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 1 / 2june2011 / 309
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 13: Loadouts / 14july2011 / 245
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 14: Psi / 4aug2011 / 186

The same sales ranking holds, other than Power-Ups and Taverns switching spots.

[griffin]

Originally Posted by Langy

I think part of the reason Big Lizzie and Lair of the Fat Man are low-selling is because they're incredibly specific. They only work in extremely specific settings and game types, meaning you can't slot them into any pre-existing campaign at all - you pretty much have to create an entire campaign specifically to run those adventures. That also applies to some of the Pyramid adventures, I believe (an Action adventure about giant, magical flying fish?), but I haven't looked too closely at them.

I agree. The audience for either is really quite small. Big Lizzie is Western with dinosaurs. Who'd think that would sell really well? Lair of the Fat Man is a campy espionage adventure. Where's the huge audience for that?

So far "Mirror of the Fire Demon" is selling well. I'm already convinced to buy a copy, but I usually don't make single purchases, so I'll be picking up $50-$100 worth of GURPS e23 product. I've just got to decide what to buy. It will probably be all DF stuff. I already own most of the line, but I'll need to give a look first to any item I don't own that is mentioned as useful to the adventure - I've already got all the essential books.


MotFD seems to be aimed at the core DF market so I'd expect it to sell well.

I hope GURPS adventures will try to do a good job of building on already established supplements. For instance, the DF supplement Taverns features a few detailed taverns. So if an adventure calls for a tavern but isn't too specific and doesn't provide any details, I'd think it would be good to include a brief reference to adapting one of those examples - Change the name of the bar to "insert_alternate_name_here" and use the example tavern owner and bar wench listed to replace the ones from the example.

For stuff like NPCs equipment - something like -- too make eleven guardsmen tougher change his gear with XYZ from DF x: Loadouts.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by griffin

I hope GURPS adventures will try to do a good job of building on already establishe supplements. For instance, the DF supplement Taverns features a few detailed taverns. So if an adventure calls for a tavern but isn't too specific and doesn't provide any details, I'd think it would be good to include a brief reference to adapting one of those examples - Change the name of the bar to "insert_alternate_name_here" and use the example tavern owner and bar wench listed to replace the ones from the example.

Mirror of the Fire Demon does exactly that, though I don't think it had an alternative name or anything like that - it basically suggested 'steal this tavern from Taverns for the meeting place!'

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Big Lizzie has sold 195 copies, Lair of the Fat Man 236. That's all-time. Mirror of the Fire Demon has sold 141 copies in the first three days. Both the two older adventures sold 48 copies in their first three days on the market.

Looks good but timing and other product releases also affect sales. it is good you looked at 2 different reports though.

Originally Posted by griffin

MotFD seems to be aimed at the core DF market so I'd expect it to sell well.

I hope GURPS adventures will try to do a good job of building on already establishe supplements. For instance, the DF supplement Taverns features a few detailed taverns. So if an adventure calls for a tavern but isn't too specific and doesn't provide any details, I'd think it would be good to include a brief reference to adapting one of those examples - Change the name of the bar to "insert_alternate_name_here" and use the example tavern owner and bar wench listed to replace the ones from the example.

For stuff like NPCs equipment - something like -- too make eleven guardsmen tougher change his gear with XYZ from DF x: Loadouts.

Those are nice thoughts and I expect to see that.
SJG tries to minimize reprinting stuff but also avoiding requirements of multiple books, especially if not a core product.
And if you do need certain books to make it work there very clear about it on the advertising as well as the beginning of the book.
So some modest referrals like a tavern would work, if you want to do a detail then your likely to have the book anyhow. If you want to do just a simple meeting though it should include enough info for that.
Same with gear.

[b-dog]

Just read Mirror of the Fire Demon and I liked it. I was interested in the starting town of Wadi al-Sheik and would have liked to have had more info and an overview map with some stores, taverns and temple locations. For me, adventures are useful if they go into specific details instead of a more generic feel because I can always delete what I don't like easier than add new stuff. Personally, I would have liked to have more info on the culture in the town and how they feel about the non human races like reptile men, pixies, elves, dwarves, ogres and so on. Also, since this is a Middle Eastern-ish fantasy town I would have liked to have seen some Middle Eastern-ish non human races as well. And more info on the religion of Yil would have been useful, although I would have loved if the religion had been Islam although I know that it is controversial. Anyway, I was interested in this town and would have loved to read more about it.

The wilderness was interesting and there were some cool monsters that fit the setting. I would have liked it more if there had been some Djinn like the ones in GURPS Arabian Nights. These guys were always interesting to me and would have loved to have had them included. (djinn, ghuls, ifrit, marid and si'lat)

The Wind spirit was cool and mysterious and I enjoyed this part because I like to have some non-combat stuff for the players to figure out. I enjoy these types of touches in DF adventures.

The fortress was interesting and I liked it. Although I will say that the temple was not creepy or wierd enough for my tastes. ( Creepy wierd temples are what Gygax did best IMO ) Anyway it was a fun read and I should be able to steal a lot from this adventure. Good job!

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Looks good but timing and other product releases also affect sales. it is good you looked at 2 different reports though.

Not over the course of a couple of years, and Mirror of the Fire Demon sold triple these other two adventures in the first three days. (This isn't like DF1, which came out right after Christmas, when SJG is usually closed; it still sold 178 copies.) This isn't selling like an adventure; it's selling like a Dungeon Fantasy release.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Not over the course of a couple of years, and Mirror of the Fire Demon sold triple these other two adventures in the first three days. (This isn't like DF1, which came out right after Christmas, when SJG is usually closed; it still sold 178 copies.) This isn't selling like an adventure; it's selling like a Dungeon Fantasy release.

DF is a popular genre aimed at people who like D&D and other high powered fantasy. The other two adventures are too geared toward the GURPS crowd which tends to like silly, slapstick stuff.

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by b-dog

DF is a popular genre aimed at people who like D&D and other high powered fantasy. The other two adventures are too geared toward the GURPS crowd which tends to like silly, slapstick stuff.

If you try real hard you could be a little bit more condescending.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by b-dog

DF is a popular genre aimed at people who like D&D and other high powered fantasy. The other two adventures are too geared toward the GURPS crowd which tends to like silly, slapstick stuff.

First sentence: yes. Second sentence: no. You say this often, but that doesn't make it true. Indeed, the top 20 e23 releases includes four Spaceships PDFs, two Low-Tech, and even City Stats, the last of which distinguishes itself by being dry but handy. None of these remotely count as silly, nor do the rest of the top 20, the nearest being Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering, which isn't a GURPS supplement. Tactical Shooting, a supplement with an approach to gun combat that is realistic, has outsold the action movie-inspired Gun Fu, even though Gun Fu came out in 2009 and Tactical Shooting came out in 2011. (There is a strong tendency for e23 sales to be higher with time for obvious reasons.)

If anything, the sales show you are saying the opposite of truth, that GURPS players shun silly supplements for serious ones. I don't buy that either -- Action has sold well -- but at least the sales might back that up. For all the ado that the whimsical Dungeon Fantasy gets around here, the ultra-geeky Spaceships has outsold it.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

If anything, the sales show you are saying the opposite of truth, that GURPS players shun silly supplements for serious ones. I don't buy that either -- Action has sold well -- but at least the sales might back that up. For all the ado that the whimsical Dungeon Fantasy gets around here, the ultra-geeky Spaceships has outsold it.

And Mysteries whcih is one of the most serious PDFs I have read is just still on higher sales than DF1.