Adjusting FG42 Rcl to 2, compared to M14

[Donny Brook]

Comparing these two videos:

FG42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6LibuC4N0

M14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLN-nHfFSc

It looks to me like the M14 has a lot more climb and kick than the FG42. Given the comparative performance and the fact that it had integral recoil dampening, I think the FG42 should be rated at Rcl 2.

Thoughts?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Comparing these two videos:

FG42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6LibuC4N0

M14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLN-nHfFSc

It looks to me like the M14 has a lot more climb and kick than the FG42. Given the comparative performance and the fact that it had integral recoil dampening, I think the FG42 should be rated at Rcl 2.

Thoughts?

The only weapon in HT in that general class in terms of power and size is the BAR, and it's much heavier. I might reduce the FG42's MinST to ST10 to match the M1, M14, and FN-FAL. Also, can you say that's it's got the same controllability as an StG-44, AK-47, AK-74, or M16-series?

Rcl is a very coarse stat, unfortunately.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Rupert

... can you say that's it's got the same controllability as an StG-44, AK-47, AK-74, or M16-series?

Based on this video of testing an AK-47 to destruction (and judging only by the early part before the shooter becomes obviously fatiqued) it does appear to me that the AK-47 is less controllable than the FG-42:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSJiAwoMpY

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Based on this video of testing an AK-47 to destruction (and judging only by the early part before the shooter becomes obviously fatiqued) it does appear to me that the AK-47 is less controllable than the FG-42:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSJiAwoMpY

Umm... When Ian's firing the FG42 it's pushing him back even with 3-4 round bursts. If he fired a full mag he'd be having to either step back or really lean into it to retain control, neither of which is going to allow for good aim.

Meanwhile the chap with the AK is firing full mags in continuous full-auto fire, holding the gun in an awkward manner to avoid getting burned, and it's not pushing him around or really moving.

[Donny Brook]

There's this one, then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgV7dn_59YE

[Rupert]

I'm not sure what you're looking for. They guy is intentionally moving the point of impact back and forth across the wall, so it's not an example of an AK-47 being hard to control.

But... that's only one of the rifles I gave as an example of Rcl 2, and the versions being used on those videos don't have even the simple recoil compensator that the AKM-47 did in military service, let alone the quite good muzzle brake the AK-74 had.

But, if you really think an FG42 deserves Rcl2 it's not going to break the game, though it will be a clear step better than every other battle rifle as a result.

[Verjigorm]

I kind of like the idea of giving guns that are supposed to be more controllable in automatic fire a to hit bonus when firing bursts, rather than lowering recoil.

And some like the AK, don't get it. AKs are typically way over gassed, which is part of why they handle bad conditions so effectively, but also why they are not neighbor friendly on the firing line. The mass of the bolt carrier is also a lot of mass to be spamming back and forth.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

I kind of like the idea of giving guns that are supposed to be more controllable in automatic fire a to hit bonus when firing bursts, rather than lowering recoil.

And some like the AK, don't get it. AKs are typically way over gassed, which is part of why they handle bad conditions so effectively, but also why they are not neighbor friendly on the firing line. The mass of the bolt carrier is also a lot of mass to be spamming back and forth.

In my experience running GURPS, automatic weapons do not need more bonuses to hit - they do so quite well enough already.

Also, any such bonus should also apply to rapid semi-automatic fire, so it's closer to just giving a weapon a +1 to Guns for being well-made and well-balanced. Or, giving those guns that aren't a -1 for being hard to hold on target aside from whatever it is that Rcl measures.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rupert

In my experience running GURPS, automatic weapons do not need more bonuses to hit - they do so quite well enough already.

Also, any such bonus should also apply to rapid semi-automatic fire, so it's closer to just giving a weapon a +1 to Guns for being well-made and well-balanced. Or, giving those guns that aren't a -1 for being hard to hold on target aside from whatever it is that Rcl measures.

+1 whenever firing RoF 3+ has rules precedent though - it's used in Adventure Guns and Tactical Shooting for compensators and similar anti-muzzle-flip accessories.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

+1 whenever firing RoF 3+ has rules precedent though - it's used in Adventure Guns and Tactical Shooting for compensators and similar anti-muzzle-flip accessories.

There's also a Perk for it. Tracer Eyes I think.