Extra Arms & Mundane Crafting

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Holding a saucepan and using a whisk while pouring in stuff would certainly make various tasks easier as a cook.

For tasks where having Extra Arms is an actual benefit rather than just a convenience to make up for lack of tools, you might get an actual +1 bonus per extra arm but only to offset penalties for taking less time. Your Extra Arms don't make you any better, but they do allow you to work faster.

The same might apply for other advantages based on extra or improved body parts. For example, Enhanced Tracking might give you a +1 bonus per level to offset taking less time for scanning an area or sorting through data to find a particular bit of information.

Taking it the other way, having an insufficient number of arms/body parts for a task might give a -1 to -4 penalty per missing part, but the penalties might be offset by taking extra time or having good tools. For example, a one-armed carpenter might still be effective if they have a workshop filled with tools, vises, etc. which can be operated one-handed (effectively Good- or Fine-Quality tools) and they take the extra time to use them.

Some task just require a minimum number of body parts, however. A one-armed pianist or guitarist will never play at the same level they would have achieved were they not handicapped and normal human is going to have serious trouble playing a woodwind musical instrument designed for a species with two mouths and four arms.

[RGTraynor]

One of my longstanding NPCs is an insectoid lacemaker; awed locals come by to watch it work, which it does with a metronomic speed ...

... anyway, I see no reason to go into Rube Goldbergesque bolt-ons when the explicit text states that extra arms can be used "freely for multiple noncombat tasks." It is entirely reasonable to presume this to include making a single noncombat task faster, at least where one can conceptualize an extra arm helping in this fashion. ("Making a mail shirt," absolutely. "Driving a tent stake" or "repairing a fob watch," I don't see it.) +2 bonus to offset taking less time penalties is an easy enough fix.

[Akule]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I might be inclined to allow it to count as having assistants, particularly with Enhanced Tracking, although note that they'll be somewhat-clumsy assistants (skill at -4 relative to yours) if you don't have Ambidexterity (or perhaps you should call it Multidexterity) or a relevant Off Hand Training Perk. Realistically, there are some parts where having assistants a bit of distance away would be more useful than having them basically occupying the same space as you (they can be off working on different parts of the job, for example), but we'll assume the fact you are going to work more efficiently with yourself than with someone else (you basically have an enhanced version of the Teamwork Perk) balances that out for simplicity. So, every two additional arms counts as having an assistant; this will depend on the details of your arachno-person, but I'm going to assume this works out to you being able to accomplish 3 man-hours of work each hour (three sets of arms, and one set of legs, for a total of 8 limbs).

I've already set aside points for Ambidexterity (you're, right in this case it would be Multidexterity), as the character can use the hands interchangeably with the same level of skill. I am going to add the Multiple Lock-Ons enhancement to Enhanced Tracking, as the character is going to practice skills like Herbalism, Alchemy, and Cooking, so it's useful to have to be able to track the various ingredients, stir pots, grind spices, etc.

Ideally, the arms will be long, so that the character can have a pretty commanding reach. I already gave the character Gigantism, so their SM is +1, and long arms will assist in being able to reach for further away items. I won't be able to start out with anything fun like short-range portals to be able to grab things further away, like a D&D Sharn.

Originally Posted by Varyon

From a gamist perspective, it may be appropriate to charge you for having a couple Allies as Alternate Abilities to your Extra Arms (and perhaps Enhanced Tracking, lumping the cost of them together). Summonable, Always-Available Allies that are basically only able to serve as crafting assistants (presumably meaning they have an Optional Specialization for each of your crafting skills, to only be able to serve as assistants, not to do the crafting themselves) are going to be pretty cheap; unless your crafting skills make up a substantial number of your points, they're probably well below 25% of your point value; being [1] each after accounting for being Alternate Abilities is probably achievable (at 25% of your point value, they'd be [1.6] each, rounded up to [2] each - base cost of [1], boosted to [2] for Summonable +100% and further boosted to [8] for Always Available x4).

No, crafting won't take up more than 25% of my character value. Obviously, I would love to add more into that realm, but in order to get a lot of the spider and witch tropes into the build, I need to set aside a decent amount of points toward that.

Hm. So I assume a summoned arm ally sort of build would be something along the lines of a shapeshifter growing or extending arms, or something along the lines of the Borderlands 3 character, Siren Amara?

Originally Posted by Varyon

So, with all that in mind, I'd say being able to treat your Extra Arms as an assistant (with equal skill if you have Multidexterity or appropriate Perk, at relative -4 to skill otherwise) is simply a Leveled Perk; each level counts as another assistant, and you can have up to one such "assistant" for every two additional arms.

Oh, to be considered as further training for using the multiple arms in that regard?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Akule

Hm. So I assume a summoned arm ally sort of build would be something along the lines of a shapeshifter growing or extending arms, or something along the lines of the Borderlands 3 character, Siren Amara?

No, I'm just using the Ally trait as a stand-in, here. Your character just has their six arms, but can use them such that they function like a character with two arms who has two assistants (who each also have two arms).

Again, there's no summoning involved, no actual allies, or anything else of the sort. I'm just using the cost of a summonable ally (summonable due to them not being targetable like an ally who sticks with you would be, but come to think of it that's probably not necessary considering your arms can indeed be targeted) that is an alternate ability to your arms (as you can't claim any further benefit for the extra arms if they are serving as assistants) to get a fair price for the ability.

Originally Posted by Akule

Oh, to be considered as further training for using the multiple arms in that regard?

It's really just "this isn't a benefit that Extra Arms is meant to give you, so you need to pay for it" - that is, it's a purely gamist accounting method. But if you wish to consider it as representing training to get the most out of your extra arms such that they let you work markedly faster, that's an excellent justification (and one I've considered before - basically having cybernetics as gear but requiring the character to purchase a specialized version of Payload to account for the implant's weight, and with this representing the character getting used to having the implant).

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Varyon

No, I'm just using the Ally trait as a stand-in, here. Your character just has their six arms, but can use them such that they function like a character with two arms who has two assistants (who each also have two arms).

In this case it's bought like so:

Extra Arms x2 [30] (10 points/arm; Extra-flexible, +50%; Long, +100%) [15]
- Alternate Ability [1] : "Assistant" Ally (25%, 1 point; Constant, x4) [4]

So following this build, your Extra Arms cost 31 points. Keep in mind, you should probably also make your regular arms Extra-flexible... in which case just buy Double Jointed for 15 points, it'll make all your arms "extra flexible", lowering the Extra Arms cost to 20 (21 with the Alternate Ability). And Flexibility/Double Jointed also applies to legs... and your whole body skills like Escape.


However as Extra Arms already states you can multitask using different arms to perform different tasks, just as you can with two arms... as long as you purchased Enhanced Tracking if those tasks require concentration, as a GM I wouldn't require this. Or rather, I would allow this build instead of Enhanced Tracking, because it works differently (if you can't use your "Assistant" for combat for example).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Without Compartmentalized Mind you can only perform one task that requires concentration at a time.

Extra Arms sometimes gets taken with Extra Attack and it makes me wonder if we could somehow shoehorn Extra Attack to being useful in non-combat situations.

Improving Grip CP for example (Technical Grappling page 12) can be done unopposed w/ a Ready maneuver (automatic max CP) or via an Attack, where it restores Thrust CP based on Grip ST

Although an Extra Attack is not meant to be an Extra Ready, the lines between them probably should be blurrable w/ some drawbacks when stepping over the line.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Plane

Extra Arms sometimes gets taken with Extra Attack and it makes me wonder if we could somehow shoehorn Extra Attack to being useful in non-combat situations.

Sure. Same deal with Enhanced Tracking where it would be useful. Treat such traits as giving the same bonus you'd get for Good- or Fine-Quality tools when the situation warrants it. E.g., Extra Attack might be useful for +1 or +2 to work more quickly while forging metal or driving nails. Enhanced Tracking might be good for a +1 or +2 bonus to do tricky maneuvering in traffic where you're trying to keep track of multiple vehicles at once.

[Plane]

Yeah even if you couldn't do more things w/ 4 arms and had to alternate between using them, that could be convenient for when you don't need to set things down on a table, stow them in a belt, etc.