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Old 11-02-2016, 11:44 PM   #21
sir_pudding
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
I kind of agree with your opinion Hal with the caveat that like what's been demonstrated in real life, Computer Programs and human minds can better utilize there hardware to greater effect. You can learn mental shortcuts to solve a problem faster and in tern Computer programs can be engineered to do things more efficiently. So yes there is a hard limit on the IQ an AI can have in a given platform, but it's reasonable to say it doesn't start out of the box at that limit and can learn it's way up.
More simply it should be possible for an AI to learn some general knowledge...
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:05 AM   #22
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

In many settings sapient computer IQ will be capped by the hardware. In others it won't. Just as an IQ above 20 is in "ask the GM before buying it" territory. This is GURPS - you don't use every rule in every setting.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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That is determining the "Racial" IQ of the AI template, unless they also have "Fixed IQ" they aren't dependent on Complexity for individual variations.
Yes, but the OP talked about the average zone mind having 20 IQ and asking how that is achievable.

For that you need a specific complexity. Individual zoneminds can then be more or less.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

Hello Folks,
Having delved further into the rules for AI's in GURPS 4e, along with the original rules from GURPS BASIC SET THIRD EDITION REVISED and GURPS ROBOTS, it appears that rules as written, IQ may not be any higher than the computer platform that the AI is based off of.

See this post for further clarification:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...17&postcount=1

I spent the last few hours reading both the GURPS ULTRATECH, GURPS REIGN OF STEEL: WILL TO LIVE, GURPS ROBOTS, etc. The only thing left for me to do for another day, is to compare the write ups for the GURPS REIGN OF STEEL robots and the REIGN OF STEEL: WILL TO LIVE robots to see where they differ or agree or what have you. GURPS ULTRATECH is quite specific about AI's - either of Volitional status or non-volitional status - they have the taboo trait (Complexity limited IQ).

The problem arises where people might say "But it isn't listed in GURPS REIGN OF STEEL: THE WILL TO LIVE", but the problem is - the shorthand adopted by the writer lists AI: 32 points in short hand. Under that template in GURPS ULTRATECH, it does list the Complexity Limited IQ trait. I also spotted what appears to be a minor error in that AI 32 is really short shorthand, that should have read "Volitional AI[32]" and the Non-Volitional Unit should have had "Non-Volitional Unit -34" because it should have had Non-Volitional AI at -38 points instead of +32 points as listed. That's for the original author or the powers that be to decide. Either way, the Complexity Limited Taboo trait is rules as written.
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Old 11-03-2016, 03:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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In many settings sapient computer IQ will be capped by the hardware. In others it won't. Just as an IQ above 20 is in "ask the GM before buying it" territory. This is GURPS - you don't use every rule in every setting.
In REIGN OF STEEL setting, it appears that the rules are specific: IQ is Complexity based and not changeable.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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In REIGN OF STEEL setting, it appears that the rules are specific: IQ is Complexity based and not changeable.
GURPS Reign of Steel, p.60:
"... An AI's racial IQ is in the 12-13 range, but since they are sentient machines this is simply a base. Like humans they can and will have spent character points: IQ 16-20 is common. ..."
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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GURPS Reign of Steel, p.60:
"... An AI's racial IQ is in the 12-13 range, but since they are sentient machines this is simply a base. Like humans they can and will have spent character points: IQ 16-20 is common. ..."
I found that this morning when I woke up - and I can see where the issues MAY arise. However, my next step in analyzing the data, is to find out if ANY of the robots created for use with GURPS CLASSIC REIGN OF STEEL, have violations of the IQ formula from ROBOTS or not. If they do, then the prospect is viable as an inherent function of the genre setting.

My suspicion before I even start the analysis, is that the rules for player character robots is optional rather than the default, and that the option was kept open for those GMs who may want to go that route. It also explained why I was seeing some people indicate "racial IQ" - which had me scratching my head until I found it earlier...

That having been said, if the "race" is deemed to be "Artificial Inteligences" and the IQ varies across the board, the "Racial" variance can also be explained simply by the fact that an IQ 12 Robot might be of a given complexity, while an IQ 13 is of a higher complexity. Having spent points to upgrade the IQ of a character might require that the character upload their Core Intelligence into a new computer (or may not). I'm trying to go into the analysis with an open mind to see what facts state what. The newer GURPS REIGN OF STEEL: WILL TO LIVE is indicative that IQ's are limited to what the hardware itself provides per the Taboo Trait in GURPS ULTRATECH.

Truth is however, just because it is written as a rule in subsequent publishing material, doesn't necessarily invalidate the concept for other campaigns. Spells have been changed from edition to edition of GURPS MAGIC, which implies too, that certain concepts can be changed across editions of any given material.

Will start with ROBOTS as CHARACTERS in GURPS ROBOTS first, to see what the guidelines were then, and contrast them with other rules to see what is or is not the general case...
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:35 PM   #28
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

Again, an AI can learn some general knowledge. Which means it can increase its IQ for the same reasons that a biological can. Saying that AI IQ must be complexity limited is the same as saying that they can't learn general knowledge. There is no "general knowledge" skill for a reason.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Again, an AI can learn some general knowledge. Which means it can increase its IQ for the same reasons that a biological can. Saying that AI IQ must be complexity limited is the same as saying that they can't learn general knowledge. There is no "general knowledge" skill for a reason.
I don't see how that fits. Inability to become across the board more intelligent/perceptive/willful doesn't equate to some inability to learn in any realistic or Gurps fashion.
I certainly learn every day, but haven't gotten a higher IQ since attaining adulthood.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: [Reign of Steel] Zoneminds IQ and Complexity

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I certainly learn every day, but haven't gotten a higher IQ since attaining adulthood.
Remember, GURPS IQ is not the same as IQ (and should probably have a different name, but legacy). It's quite possible that your GURPS IQ has gone up.
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