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Old 07-13-2018, 03:39 PM   #1
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Nonexistent Stats

TFT's 3 attributes provide tremendous simplicity. This is a Good Thing most of the time. And each attribute can cover several traditional RPG traits adequately - ST includes strength and health, DX includes agility and manual dexterity, IQ includes intelligence and education.

However, other rolls (some quite common) are required that don't really line up well with any of the the three attributes. Some of them are handled by talents (i.e., Sex Appeal, Charisma and Bard for attractiveness, charisma/leadership and singing voice respectively). I have no problem with that.

Others are based on attributes with questionable relevance to the abilities being tested. An example of this is rolling on IQ to notice things. I'm very dubious that intelligence (surely the primary ability baked into IQ) correlates very well with visual (or audio or olfactory) perception. For that matter, even some talents (Sex Appeal for instance) are based on attributes that are questionable fits.

I propose that all of these rolls - perception, roll to seduce, ability to sing - anything that seems to have no clear analogue attribute - be based on a phantom attribute of 10. As always, the base 3 die roll to succeed. Add dice for difficulty, reduce by 1 die if you have an applicable talent or for VERY favorable conditions.

So you'd roll 3d6 and need a 10- to see a normal hidden door. A really well hidden door would require 4 dice. I would suggest a 1 point talent to allow a 1 die favorable modifier – Perception.

So assume you have Sex Appeal and you're trying to seduce someone who lacks Sex Appeal. The GM rules there are no unfavorable modifiers. So you need a 10- on 2d6 to succeed. If the target also has Sex Appeal, you'd roll an additional die, or 3d6.

Rolls to avoid being terrified by eldrich horrors like Cthulhu would be another example.

You could even have a generic talent - "Good at X". X can be anything that isn't already covered by other talents. It reduces the phantom roll to 2D.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 07-13-2018 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:11 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

Good points about the limitations of having only 3 attributes. I think it's important to be able to have smart people who have bad vision or hearing or are just unobservant, or not-so-smart people who have acute senses.

However I think always rolling against 10 is a problem, because you lose so much grain and get a flat % chance for every 2d, 3d, 4d, 5d roll, etc for every character. I think I'd rather have blurry attributes to roll against, than have a plain 10.

GURPS uses some 10-based mini-attributes, but it works well because GURPS lets you buy unique values up or down from 10 for a few of that system's smaller-grain points.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:35 PM   #3
ecz
 
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post

(...)
So you'd roll 3d6 and need a 10- to see a normal hidden door. A really well hidden door would require 4 dice. I would suggest a 1 point talent to allow a 1 die favorable modifier – Perception.
I believe it exists and is named "alertness" .

I'm confortable with the current system. The GM just need to prepare in advance a few tables for the most common situations not covered in the rules and be consistant with his ruling.
Fast talk and Interrogation are two good examples.

and about sex appeal I think the PC can decide if make the 3D test against IQ or ST to charm the victim.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:37 PM   #4
zot
 
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

I've been advocating the middle-valued attribute for these rolls because I think it's a good measure of general capability, possibly modified by number of attribute points over 32 (+0 to +8: the character's "rank" or "level").

Some other cases: fear, deception, intimidation... Any time when personality would matter more than intelligence.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #5
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Nonexistent Stats - Bravery, Social, engineering.

Hi Ty, everyone.
The Firefly board game has three attributes that map to Fighting, Engineering and Social, which works well for it.

In TFT, the things I most often wish I had a number on a character sheet for is bravery, followed by social ability. (Not suggesting these as new attributes, this is just a general discussion.)

If TFT was to double down on technological artifacts, some sort of better way to measure engineering ability would be cool.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:52 PM   #6
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

That works for fright checks, too, which really have nothing to do with ST, DX, or IQ.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:48 PM   #7
JLV
 
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

I think that fright checks are a very important point that wasn't particularly well addressed in the original TFT. I'd like to see some kind of mechanism in place for that kind of thing, that's for sure.

Especially when the players are dealing with ghosts and "things man was not meant to know."
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:58 PM   #8
Jim Kane
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I think that fright checks are a very important point that wasn't particularly well addressed in the original TFT. I'd like to see some kind of mechanism in place for that kind of thing, that's for sure.
Agreed. Even this is simply expressed as the loss of initiative; or in more *shocking* cases, where the enemy-side gets a free turn.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 07-14-2018 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:19 AM   #9
zot
 
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Default Re: Nonexistent Stats

I did talk about this stuff in a couple other threads... :)

Resisting Fear (dump stats and 3/L, 3/M, 3/H saving throws)

Contests, Opposed Rolls, and Tasks -- Feedback, Please?
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