About a disposable amors

[Boifubá]

Some people don't know but bulletproof vests are disposable after taking the first damage (in real life). Could anyone tell me if there are any optional rules that take this into account or some kind of rule for repairs?

[Ulzgoroth]

Not really that I'm aware of.

Low Tech Companion 2 has rules for armor damage and repair, but they're intended for low tech armor and assume that you won't harm the armor without doing damage at least equal to the DR it provides the wearer.

HT and UT both account for the disposable nature of trauma plates, but treat ballistic fabric as indefinitely reusable.

[MrFix]

High Tech has optional rule that treats Ballistic Plates as semi-abalative, thus reducing their DR value as they get more damaged.

This rule does not apply to flexible armor... or any armor that isn't a ballistic plate, but it could if you so desire.

[Sam Baughn]

As I understand it, the 'ablative' nature of kevlar fabric is often exaggerated. Unless you get hit nearly exactly in a spot which has previously been almost or actually penetrated, it seems to work about as well as it ever did. There are YouTube channels of people who shoot various projectiles into various materials, which re-use the same kevlar vest dozens or hundreds of times, with the bits without holes working perfectly well.
I believe that the manufacturers tell people to dispose of the vest after it has been shot so as to avoid legal liability. Obviously you can't certify that a piece of equipment offers a certain degree of protection after it has been damaged in an unpredictable way. I'm sure that customers buying replacement products is seen as something of a bonus too.
I think the LTC2 rules should work well enough for modern armour. Possibly change 'armor is protected by its own DR at -1' to 'armor is protected by half its own DR' or something.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Sam Baughn

As I understand it, the 'ablative' nature of kevlar fabric is often exaggerated. Unless you get hit nearly exactly in a spot which has previously been almost or actually penetrated, it seems to work about as well as it ever did.

I believe this is the realistically the case for most armor (excepting ablative ones, like ceramic trauma plates). The GURPS ablation model really doesn't work well here, however, as under that any hit to a piece of armor reduces the DR of the entire piece of armor (or at least from the same facing). An option might be to say that on any hit that exceeds 70% DR (including penetrating hits), the armor becomes Compromised from that facing. Compromised armor has a 1/6 chance of giving only half DR (comparable to targeting chinks; in fact, you can target chinks in such armor at only -4, consistent with 5/6 protection). Taking several such hits can Compromise the armor further - 3 hits boosts this to 2/6 (-3 for chinks), 10 hits to 3/6 (-2 for chinks), 30 hits to 4/6 (-1 to chinks), 100 hits to 5/6 (still -1 to chinks), and if the armor has taken 300+ hits, it only protects at half DR. If that's too slow of a progression, consider +2 SSR instead of the above +3 SSR, for 1 hit, 2 hits, 5 hits, 10 hits, 20 hits, and 50 hits for 1/6, 2/6, 3/6, 4/6, 5/6, and 6/6, respectively.

[fula farbrorn]

The big problem with Ablative armor is the fact that there are designs out there that mitigate it, For example Safarilands Hardwire Soft body armor where you can stack 20+ hits straight ontop of eachother without a penetration.

or Ceradynes IMP/ACT plates that can take a fair bit of a beating, the MH3CQB can take 10 hits of 7.62 M995.

really we should have a module with different models of armor, i am working on one myself but its taking a while.

[Polkageist]

What'll probably work is a little on the gamey side, but honestly not all that different that real life considering the point that Sam made that unless the vest (or ballistic plate) is hit in the same spot twice it'll still keep doing its job, and the degradation is below the level of detail of the rules or in the middle of a fight that lasts only a few seconds and the armor taking only a hit or two.

Once the fight is over, the armor is expended. As simple as that. Re-using it would be a significant penalty of one kind or another, probably reducing the DR by a lot, but the easiest thing is to look at the mangled armor that did its job and say it's time to get a fresh set.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Sam Baughn

I believe that the manufacturers tell people to dispose of the vest after it has been shot so as to avoid legal liability. Obviously you can't certify that a piece of equipment offers a certain degree of protection after it has been damaged in an unpredictable way. I'm sure that customers buying replacement products is seen as something of a bonus too.

I suspect that repairing and recertifying a vest with any confidence would cost more than a new vest. Or just be a case of recycling straps and the like for an otherwise completely new vest.

Quick idea:

Each hit location of ballistic fiber armor starts off with an N value of 0. Every time a vest takes a hit of at least 2/3 its DR, roll 1d. If the roll is N or less, it protects at 1/2 DR. If the roll is higher than N, add 1 to N for the torso, or 2 to N for other hit locations. No need to roll for the first hit (when N is 0) or after several hits (when N is 7+ and DR is simply halved for all hits).

[DaosusLeghki]

I suspect that repairing and recertifying a vest with any confidence would cost more than a new vest. Or just be a case of recycling straps and the like for an otherwise completely new vest.

I believe the traditional solution to this is to put the non-reusable armor plate into a removable pouch... :)

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by DaosusLeghki

I believe the traditional solution to this is to put the non-reusable armor plate into a removable pouch... :)

We're not talking about the plates, though, we're talking about the ballistic fabric.