[IW] 'Steampunk' timelines and settings?

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

Also agree that steampunk should have at least nominal amounts of dystopia for it to be true to the origins of the genre. The essence of *punk isn't a particular set of clothing, but a cynical attitude to how society is developing, coupled with an optimistic view of how technology is developing.

Just as cyberpunk where everyone is happy is often called cyberprep, steampunk where everyone is happy is,perhaps, better called steamprep.

I have to disagree. Unlike cyberpunk, the allure of steampunk is the technology (and fashion) alone, without any implied dystopia. "Steamprep" sounds like people whining that someone else's game isn't as dark and gritty as theirs, so it's not "true" steampunk.

Also, cyberpunk minus the dystopia is simply "the future with cybernetics", no need to condiscending nonsense about "cyberprep".

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

I have to disagree. Unlike cyberpunk, the allure of steampunk is the technology (and fashion) alone, without any implied dystopia. "Steamprep" sounds like people whining that someone else's game isn't as dark and gritty as theirs, so it's not "true" steampunk.

There's a generational difference here. People who first experienced Steampunk as a sub-genre of SF in the 80s and 90s tend to expect it to have Victorian-style social inequalities and things arising from them. People who first encountered it as a fashion and design movement don't.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by johndallman

There's a generational difference here. People who first experienced Steampunk as a sub-genre of SF in the 80s and 90s tend to expect it to have Victorian-style social inequalities and things arising from them. People who first encountered it as a fashion and design movement don't.

True and good point. I like Steampunk fashion and "maker" culture just fine, but when I hear the term I always go to the SF sub-genre first.

I've heard the "future as it should have been" premise before, but it's never quite jived with my experience as a reader.

But generally speaking I don't wish to exclude optimistic or utopian speculations from carrying the steampunk label--the word simply means something different and less specific than it used to. I just find the notion of doing the opposite ludicrous considering the genre's origins and it's continuing life in literature;

if you can read Morlock Night (1979), or Boneshaker (2010) and say "ah, that's how things should have been" you've got serious issues, but it's hard to argue that they aren't both Steampunk--especially not since Morlock Night was the first book ever described using that term.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

I'm not saying that Steamprep is badwrongfun, I'm just saying let's call Steamprep Steamprep when we see it. In the popular usage, the "punk" suffix tends to indicate pessimism and the "prep" suffix tends to indicate optimism, while "steam" is purely an aesthetic / fashion designation.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

I'm not saying that Steamprep is badwrongfun, I'm just saying let's call Steamprep Steamprep when we see it. In the popular usage, the "punk" suffix tends to indicate pessimism and the "prep" suffix tends to indicate optimism, while "steam" is purely an aesthetic / fashion designation.

This is the first thread I've seen this idea, so clearly it doesn't mean that to everyone.

[Vynticator]

I think you'll find Space 1889 is a pretty fully developed steampunk world with some sort of alternate timeline. Hope that helps, OP.

I have to weigh in on the side of those suggesting the term 'steampunk' is defined by the unusually advanced technology level in a Victorian setting, rather than anything else. The setting is a slightly tweaked colonial imperial England, as far as I've ever encountered it. Women as PCs might be feasible if they are very wealthy aristocrats, perhaps orhpaned, like a Victorian Lara Croft. Even then, social norms would suggest they be chaperoned.

Racial liberty - well, you could stretch to the kind of 'freedom' seen in Django Unchained, I guess. In Space 1889, you have Martians and Vesuvians as potential enemies so the racism might be deflected into inter-species tensions. In real history of the time, you've got figures like Dadabhai Naoroji, the first Indian-born person to be elected to the UK House of Commons in 1892, though. But you'd be stretching things to pretend there wasn't major racial tension. You had black senators in the US in 1870. But disenfranchinement was systematic from 1890 onwards in the US, I'm given to understand. The Steampunk I'm aware of reflects those tensions and inequalities.

But hey, don't let the origins of the term hold you back from going all politically correct. Plenty of people run dark ages and middle ages fantasy campaigns where the races are working in glorious harmony and women are equal members of society, whereas TL2 Europe was not quite so lovely and fluffy. Language is always a-changing according to changes in usage, anyway.

[Qoltar]

No...

Its still 'Steampunk' if its cheerful & 'optimistic' - because that's what 'Steampunk' really IS.

No one in the past 3 years that I have been part of the community has used the term 'steamprep'.

The 'punk' part of the term comes from rebellion against some traditions and formality.
In other words: the 'punk' part of it can represent not being a bigot and giving women and minorities voting rights and respect that the old authorities didn't want to.

Here is a link to the website of a major Steampunk convention that happened this past weekend: http://thepandorasociety.com/symposium/

- Edmund C.

[DocRailgun]

That's not what Steampunk is, at least not to me. IMNSHO, "Steampunk" settings have to be set in a specific time period (the Victorian Era), though they don't have to be set in Britain. The "steam" part comes from alternate history technology which is more advanced than in real life.

The "punk" side comes from the characters in the settings rebelling to some extent against Victorian societal norms. If there's no rebellion (even if it's a behind the scenes rebellion and the characters pretend to be respectable Victorians in public), there's no punk.

You can't have cyberpunk without mega corps to fight and you can't have steampunk without a disapproving patriarchal (and racist and classist) society to be better than.

Note that I am talking about Steampunk stories and games. What ethos or worldview a club or convention or sub-culture movement wants to define themselves as really have nothing to do with "steampunk" the literary sub-genre any more than polyamorous groups have anything to do with Heinlein's _Friday_.

Originally Posted by Qoltar

No...

Its still 'Steampunk' if its cheerful & 'optimistic' - because that's what 'Steampunk' really IS.

No one in the past 3 years that I have been part of the community has used the term 'steamprep'.

The 'punk' part of the term comes from rebellion against some traditions and formality.
In other words: the 'punk' part of it can represent not being a bigot and giving women and minorities voting rights and respect that the old authorities didn't want to.

Here is a link to the website of a major Steampunk convention that happened this past weekend: http://thepandorasociety.com/symposium/

- Edmund C.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Its still 'Steampunk' if its cheerful & 'optimistic' - because that's what 'Steampunk' really IS.

Are Morlock Night, The Difference Engine, and Boneshaker steampunk, then?

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Its still 'Steampunk' if its cheerful & 'optimistic' - because that's what 'Steampunk' really IS.

Nope. The Pandora Society doesn't get to define a literary term that was invented 35 years ago.

Of course it is right and good that a convention should have a policy of presenting racial and sexual equality--it needs to be a comfortable place for everyone. And of course I would never attend a convention that forced women or minorities to role-play the oppression of the 19th century. And the whole thing looks super fun.

But they don't get to define what Steampunk really is. There's a literary movement older than the fashion movement and it's not generally cheerful and optimistic.