Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2013, 12:29 PM   #21
Terwin
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Contrast this to the delver*, who might be able to manage a 5% reduction (carrying an appropriate amulet, say) and probably isn't going to have a Grimoire for each of his buffs. Burning ER isn't really an option if he's casting a lot of buffs, and neither is getting his friends to sacrifice of themselves, but we'll let him get 1 energy from each of these sources.
Why not use ER for casting buffs?
ER is even easier to fill than gathering the same amount of energy(no quirks and you can just start over when you start getting penalties for repeated attempts), and takes the same amount of time.

I can see not using sacrifices(unless you are planning to cook it for dinner anyway), but ER is a very reasonable thing to use, and if we stumbled upon a vacant place of power(or one that we just finished clearing out), I would be inclined to re-cast at least one or two of the more expensive buffs to take advantage of the situation(at the very least giving a nice long duration to make up-keep easier)

Also, once you get up to 16+ in the path, additional bonuses add less and less to the safe draw max as well.

Discounts from components and deconic trappings would make dispels more affordable, not to mention sacrifices(you eat dinner every day, right? And probably use bigger critters if you have minions to feed) and Grimoires providing a nice bump as well.

Edit: re-added the 'Burning ER isn't really an option' part of the quote that I accidentally removed

Last edited by Terwin; 10-30-2013 at 01:02 PM.
Terwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:45 PM   #22
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
Why not use ER for casting buffs?
Because a level of Magery is equivalent to 3 levels of ER and has other benefits.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:03 PM   #23
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
Why not use ER for casting buffs?
ER is even easier to fill than gathering the same amount of energy(no quirks and you can just start over when you start getting penalties for repeated attempts), and takes the same amount of time.
Yeah, for some reason I thought ER took a long time to replenish. So, add 5 to the energy totals I worked up. At Magery higher than 2, the difference between the delver and the Charm-maker are slightly less in terms of ER effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
Also, once you get up to 16+ in the path, additional bonuses add less and less to the safe draw max as well.
Looking at the safe thresholds, the 16->17 transition is actually where we see the greatest increase, +14 to threshold. After this it's +13, for 18 and 19, and thereafter is +10 - which is still better than any transition before 17. This means the Charm-maker sees his greatest improvement over the delver when the delver can't get over skill 16, but even once you're dealing with much higher thresholds the Charm-maker is still going to be pulling well ahead.
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:03 PM   #24
Terwin
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Sorry, I accidentally removed the most relevant part of the qu0te that I was replying to, the bit where he said using the ER that comes with Magery while casting buffs is not worthwhile. Re-added.
Terwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:54 PM   #25
Terwin
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Looking at the safe thresholds, the 16->17 transition is actually where we see the greatest increase, +14 to threshold. After this it's +13, for 18 and 19, and thereafter is +10 - which is still better than any transition before 17. This means the Charm-maker sees his greatest improvement over the delver when the delver can't get over skill 16, but even once you're dealing with much higher thresholds the Charm-maker is still going to be pulling well ahead.
At 19, your 11th energy gathering roll is still at 16, but you have a cumulative crit fail chance of 5%

At 23, your 22nd energy gathering roll is at 16, but your cumulative crit fail chance is 10%

16 was a bad number for me to state as I was actually thinking about the 5% crit fail limit while still at 16+.

With 10 gather rolls + the casting roll, your total success rate should be 95% at 19+(that seems to be what was used for the 'safe threshold'), so at that point the 'safe energy' improvement stops climbing(as a percentage improvement over lower levels), as you are just adding 1 to the margin with each roll, and no longer adding rolls.(1 roll against 15 has the same crit fail chance as 4 rolls at 16)

Note: at 19 10 average rolls net 70 energy

Of course after someone pointed out the lab bonus, I gave up on the premise that useful dispels are hard to come by as at almost any level, just a +1 from the lab will allow a dispel charm to at least equal any field buffs.


New question: While gathering energy, would all crit-fails be at 30 energy?
Is there any reason not to transfer any bundle of 15+ energy into your reserve before using another gather for further charging?
Is there even a reason to not immediately transfer all gathered energy onto your reserve?

I could see an argument for the GM not allowing multiple dumps onto the ER if you are attempting to recharge using several 0 time gathers, but that is the only scenario I have identified thus far.
Terwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 02:02 PM   #26
Mathulhu
 
Join Date: May 2009
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

You can only tap your reserve once per spell.

You can only refill your reserve will the Path of Magic.

You would have to stop the spell you are casting to put energy into your reserve.

It doesn't feel right.

Take your pick, I expect one of them is right or at least will work for you.
__________________
Maxwell Kensington "Snotkins" Von Smacksalot III
Mathulhu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #27
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
New question: While gathering energy, would all crit-fails be at 30 energy?
Your botches equal double the amount of energy you gathered. So if you had gathered 60 energy, the botch will be made with 120 energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
Is there any reason not to transfer any bundle of 15+ energy into your reserve before using another gather for further charging?
You can't. If you stop casting the spell before the required energy, the spell fails and you wasted your time. You can't transfer energy to your reserve unless you are trying to refill it with Path of Magic in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
Is there even a reason to not immediately transfer all gathered energy onto your reserve?
See above. No transfer, returns, or refunds. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
I could see an argument for the GM not allowing multiple dumps onto the ER if you are attempting to recharge using several 0 time gathers, but that is the only scenario I have identified thus far.
Again. You can't cast a spell, use your mana reserve, pause casting the spell to refill your reserve, and then begin casting the spell again. It's not a start-stop process. If you start casting you can either go forward and try to finish the spell or stop. If you go forward your spell happens (assuming no botches) if you stop the energy dissipates back into the environment.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!

Last edited by Christopher R. Rice; 10-30-2013 at 02:16 PM.
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 02:12 PM   #28
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathulhu View Post
You can only tap your reserve once per spell.

You can only refill your reserve will the Path of Magic.

You would have to stop the spell you are casting to put energy into your reserve.

It doesn't feel right.

Take your pick, I expect one of them is right or at least will work for you.
#1 seems like an issue, but #2 can be solved with another mage using Path of Magic to Lend Energy or something like that. Or a Charm, or Conditional Ritual.

I suppose the main solution would be making Manastones (like the ones in M70). How does one make Manastones in RPM? Looks like a question for the weird spells thread.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

Last edited by vicky_molokh; 10-30-2013 at 02:16 PM.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #29
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

I thought botches were 2x energy so far accumulated or did I misread something?
Kalzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 02:15 PM   #30
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Energy Accumulation and Dispel Magic

My phone needs to stop screwing with me. Yeah, it's double. It should have said double. I've fixed it. I had typed the first section, then changed it, but it used the first one. :-(
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ritual path magic, rpm

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.