[RPM] Different Setting and Different Paths

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Lesser Strengthen Body: 3
300 lbs: +3
Duration 1 day: +7
Area: +2 (minimum; I assume everyone can squeeze into a hex next to the caster)

15 points of energy to cast this one, not zero.

You're forgetting the Altered Trait here, you'd add: Altered Trait, DR 2 (10) which would increase the cost to 25.

GURPS doesn't do 'free lunch' well and RPM definitely doesn't.

[jamesfoxbr]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You're forgetting the Altered Trait here, you'd add: Altered Trait, DR 2 (10) which would increase the cost to 25.

GURPS doesn't do 'free lunch' well and RPM definitely doesn't.

This energy is ambient energy? The ambient Energy ends?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You're forgetting the Altered Trait here

I thought Altered Trait is more of a catch-all for things not covered by the effect. For example, MH1 p35 has an example of cross-planes communication, using Lesser Sense Mind -- but no Altered Traits to add Telepathy as well. The Lesser Sense Mind counts as telepathy.

I went with Strengthen because it was more expensive than Altered Traits. AT is +1 energy per 5 CP, so +2 DR = 10 CP = +2 energy, not +10.

I do find it sometimes confusing whether to describe something as some combination of effects, or just pick a corresponding advantage. (See all the threads about how to do Flight.) But if you always take the Advantage if you can find one, there's not a room left over for Effects. Looking forward to the RPM book.

[jamesfoxbr]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I thought Altered Trait is more of a catch-all for things not covered by the effect. For example, MH1 p35 has an example of cross-planes communication, using Lesser Sense Mind -- but no Altered Traits to add Telepathy as well. The Lesser Sense Mind counts as telepathy.

I went with Strengthen because it was more expensive than Altered Traits. AT is +1 energy per 5 CP, so +2 DR = 10 CP = +2 energy, not +10.

I do find it sometimes confusing whether to describe something as some combination of effects, or just pick a corresponding advantage. (See all the threads about how to do Flight.) But if you always take the Advantage if you can find one, there's not a room left over for Effects. Looking forward to the RPM book.

Altered Traits is +1 energy per 1 positive CP added and +1 energy per 5 negative CP added

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by jamesfoxbr

This energy is ambient energy? The ambient Energy ends?

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, I know English isn't your first language and I only speak two languages English and Bad English. Look, for your theoretical DR+2 spell it would be like this:

The Spell Effect would be: Lesser Strengthen Body which costs 3 energy.

The Modifiers would be: Altered Traits, DR 2 for 10 energy for the actual trait; Duration, 1 day for 7 energy for how long it lasts; and Subject Weight, 300 lbs (which is typical to affect a SM 0 target) for 3 energy.

This would total 3 (the Spell Effect) + 10 (Altered Traits) + 7 (Duration) + 3 (Subject Weight) = 23 energy total

So the spell would look like this:

Harden Skin
Spell Effects: Lesser Strengthen Body.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Trait, DR 2.
Greater Effects: 0 (x1).

The subject's skin hardens giving a DR of 2. These effects last for 1 day.

Typical Casting: Lesser Strengthen Body (3) + Altered Trait, DR 2 (10) + + Duration, 1 day (7) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs (3). 23 energy (23x1).


Now lets assume you have a decent caster (no Eliminster or one of the Seven Sisters) with Path of Body at 15 and Ritual Adept. Casting this spell might look like this:

Round 1:the caster rolls a 10 on his skill, meaning he gathers 5 energy. This takes 5 seconds. His effective skill is 15.
Round 2:the caster rolls a 12 on his skill meaning he gathers another 3 energy for 8 total. This takes 5 seconds. His effective skill is 15.
Round 3: the caster rolls a a 5 on his skill! This means he gathers 9 energy for 17 total. This takes 5 seconds. His effective skill is 14 (-1 for his third gathering attempt).
Round 4: the caster rolls a 11 on his skill. This means he gathers another 3 energy for 20 total. This takes another 5 seconds. His effective skill is 14 (-1 from round 3).
Round 5: the caster rolls a 11 on his skill. This means he gathers another 3 energy for 23 total. His needed total! This takes another 5 seconds. His effective skill is 14 (-1 from round 3). The caster then makes a unmodified roll at his skill of 15. As long as his subjects are willing they gain DR 2 otherwise they can resist with the higher of their Will or HT (+Magic Resistance if applicable).

I hope that clears it up some. >_<

Ghostdancer

Edit: I hope that didn't come off condescending! If it did I apologize.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I thought Altered Trait is more of a catch-all for things not covered by the effect. For example, MH1 p35 has an example of cross-planes communication, using Lesser Sense Mind -- but no Altered Traits to add Telepathy as well. The Lesser Sense Mind counts as telepathy.

I went with Strengthen because it was more expensive than Altered Traits. AT is +1 energy per 5 CP, so +2 DR = 10 CP = +2 energy, not +10.

I do find it sometimes confusing whether to describe something as some combination of effects, or just pick a corresponding advantage. (See all the threads about how to do Flight.) But if you always take the Advantage if you can find one, there's not a room left over for Effects. Looking forward to the RPM book.

It really depends. RPM more or less requires a GM. Usually if the character can control the trait it uses Altered Traits. If the caster is the one controlling it you can probably get away with just Spell Effects. So lets say you want to make someone fly you could build it as either:

Greater Control Body (5) + Speed, 10 yards/sec (4) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs (3) = 39 (13x3 energy).

This effect would be under the control of the caster and require a concentrate maneuver.

OR

Greater Strengthen Body (3) + Altered Traits, Flight (40) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs (3) = 141 (47x3 energy)

This effect would be under the control of the subject.

Make sense?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by jamesfoxbr

Altered Traits is +1 energy per 1 positive CP added and +1 energy per 5 negative CP added

Sure enough; I remember that rule incorrectly.. Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Usually if the character can control the trait it uses Altered Traits.

A reasonable rule when it comes to Flight. Most of the spell effect solutions seem to me more like TK than granting flight (except for Transform Body to grant actual wings).

The who-controls rule still doesn't match the p35 example. Both caster and ally get a Lesser Sense Mind to communicate, not one LSM and one Telepathy.

DR isn't "controlled" at all.

The Stacking Spells section (MH1 p 37) gives an example of giving someone (else) +1 ST with Lesser Strengthen Body. But adding a attribute is about as straightforward of an Altered Traits as could be. ("Any spell that... reduces attributes... One that ... adds attributes.") What's the Lesser Strengthen Body for, then?

This example seems to support the "in addition to the spell effect" interpretation that Ghostdancer first mentioned. AT is listed under modifers, after all, so you can't have a bare AT with no effect to modify. Or it argues for leaving out AT if you can cover the effect with a spell effect. Another example has a Lesser Strength Body for +3 to Stealth -- but that's also a 15-point Chameleon advantage. No AT mentioned in the example.

Very nearly any ability can be built with Powers. What doesn't count as Altered Traits? MH1 has an example of transforming a statue into a lion -- but there's no Alternate Form or Morph being applied -- so how about that Transform into a bird-man form for Flight? The "Artifact Hunter" example has a Lesser Sense Magic to detect magic items -- but there's a generic Detect in Powers, which would seem to be problematic for any sort of Divination. (At least this example affects the caster, rather than someone else, consistent with the "only when giving someone else an ability" interpretation.) Similar problems with Control and Create.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Sure enough; I remember that rule incorrectly.. Thanks for pointing that out.

^_^

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

A reasonable rule when it comes to Flight. Most of the spell effect solutions seem to me more like TK than granting flight (except for Transform Body to grant actual wings).

The who-controls rule still doesn't match the p35 example. Both caster and ally get a Lesser Sense Mind to communicate, not one LSM and one Telepathy.

DR isn't "controlled" at all.

The Stacking Spells section (MH1 p 37) gives an example of giving someone (else) +1 ST with Lesser Strengthen Body. But adding a attribute is about as straightforward of an Altered Traits as could be. ("Any spell that... reduces attributes... One that ... adds attributes.") What's the Lesser Strengthen Body for, then?

This example seems to support the "in addition to the spell effect" interpretation that Ghostdancer first mentioned. AT is listed under modifers, after all, so you can't have a bare AT with no effect to modify. Or it argues for leaving out AT if you can cover the effect with a spell effect. Another example has a Lesser Strength Body for +3 to Stealth -- but that's also a 15-point Chameleon advantage. No AT mentioned in the example.

Very nearly any ability can be built with Powers. What doesn't count as Altered Traits? MH1 has an example of transforming a statue into a lion -- but there's no Alternate Form or Morph being applied -- so how about that Transform into a bird-man form for Flight? The "Artifact Hunter" example has a Lesser Sense Magic to detect magic items -- but there's a generic Detect in Powers, which would seem to be problematic for any sort of Divination. (At least this example affects the caster, rather than someone else, consistent with the "only when giving someone else an ability" interpretation.) Similar problems with Control and Create.

Meh, I'm just following the advice of the man himself.

Ghostdancer

[jamesfoxbr]

Thank you very much for the help. I decided use the normal path from the MH for make my work more simple.

Can a damage malediction-type attack that bypasses DR use hit location?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by jamesfoxbr

Can a damage malediction-type attack that bypasses DR use hit location?

I'm pretty certain it can't.