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Old 05-07-2018, 08:57 AM   #1
dberwald
 
Join Date: May 2013
Default Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

Dear moderators of all that is Munchkin related,

I humble myself before you and ask that you please answer these questions that me and my family members have about this Rick and Morty version of Munchkin. We did indeed argue loudly about these things and eventually the owner of the game had the final say in the matter but we would like a ruling on these questions going forward since there was no satisfaction from either side of this argument. I ask for your forgiveness even before asking these questions as there are more than I personally wanted to ask you.


1. When the monster Shleemypants enters combat, his card states that you must discard 2 equipped items before combat. If one of the items you have equipped is the Particle Beam Wristwatch, are you able to use that and turn Shleemypants into a level one snake before having to discard any equipped items?

2. Say that you can not use the Particle Beam Wristwatch to turn Shleemypants into a level one snake before you are supposed to discard 2 equipped items. Are you able to discard the Particle Beam Wristwatch and another equipped item but still use the Particle Beam Wristwatch since the card says on it that when you discard the Wristwatch, you turn any one monster into a level one snake?

3. If you were a Songwriter and you discarded the Particle Beam Wristwatch to use it and you also discarded another card at the same time, can you then draw a face down treasure since the Songwriter class says that you just need to discard 2 cards to draw a face down treasure?


I hope that I have phrased these questions in a way that does not say what side of the argument I was on since that too has been the subject of arguments in the past. We also know that this game was not made by Steven Jackson and it was quite clear to us since the wording that was used on these cards was not the normal phrasing that we are used to in your other versions. Biggest issue that we have is just that so many of the cards say that you "discard" a card to do something and we have seen many times where you'd be able to "double" or "triple dip" that card to do multiple things.

Oh moderators of this game that we love so dearly, please give us your divine judgment on these questions, as we are not capable of coming to a conclusion on our own. Amen
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:45 AM   #2
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

You cannot double-dip discards. If you are required to make a discard, you can't preemptively choose to discard instead; you have to resolve things as they come at you.

The Particle Beam Wristwatch can only be used on a monster that is in the fight. Shleemypants causes you to discard two cards the instant it enters the fight, so you can't wedge the PBW's effect in there first.

In the future, please don't grovel to ask a question. We're all gamers here. Thanks.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:35 AM   #3
RoostersPizza
 
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Default Re: Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

I would like to appeal this ruling, as I believe my cousin, who initially asked these questions, has attempted to muddy the waters by asking all of these additional questions that do involve double-dipping and class abilities, and were never even part of the scenario that played out in the game. I never argued for any of the questions other than the one I am presenting in this post.

In the rules to Rick and Morty Munchkin it differentiates between "losing items", "selling items", and "discarding items". Furthermore, it adds that "some items may be discarded to activate their special abilities". The Particle Beam Wristwatch says it may be "discarded" to transform a monster into a "Level 1 Snake" with one level, one treasure, and no bad stuff. Therefore, it seems clear that this item falls into the latter category.

Some monsters require that you "lose" items, not "discard" them, prior to combat or as a result of the bad stuff happening (lose your headgear, lose your footgear, lose two items, etc.). Shleemypants clearly states that he requires that you "discard" two equipped items (not "lose") as he enters combat.

My logic is as follows:
1. Some items special abilities are activated upon being discarded
2. PBW is such an item
3. Shleemypants requires I discard two equipped items upon entering combat
4. If I choose to discard the PBW as one of those two equipped items (I had more than two equipped at the time), its "special ability" is "activated" to transform Shleemypants into a Level 1 Snake with one treasure, one level and no bad stuff.

If there is a flaw in the above logic, please point it out to me. Because it seems to me that you have in essence ruled that Shleemypants may say to "discard" two equipped items, but what it actually means is to "lose" two equipped items. The difference being that there is an action on my part--that of discarding the item--which activates its special ability, as described in the rules of the game.

Perhaps you could consult with MunchkinMan on this one.

Thank you.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:45 AM   #4
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

A card that says you can get a benefit by discarding it, as PBW does, mean you may voluntarily discard it to gain the benefit. It doesn't mean that the benefit automatically triggers whenever the discard happens; you have to be choosing to discard it for the ability. You cannot, for instance, sell PBW and also claim the discard ability because you're discarding PBW as part of the sale process; you have to choose one or the other.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:38 PM   #5
RoostersPizza
 
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Default Re: Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

I accept your ruling, although I disagree with how you are arriving at it, because you still are not addressing the difference between "losing" items and "discarding" them, as the rules for Rick and Morty Munchkin explains them. I agree that selling them for gold at the same time as discarding would be double-dipping, but those are separate events. And I would agree that losing them to Shleemypants would be a separate event, if it indeed stated that I "lose two equipped items", rather than what it actually states.

It seems to me that rather than double-dipping, you are saying that the term "discard" applies only to what Shleemypants is forcing me to do and not in any way to what the card I choose to discard states happens as a result of that action. Somehow, in this situation, the PBW's special ability that may be activated upon being discarded may not be activated upon being discarded. Again, this is different from "lost" or "sold", except it isn't?

Like I said, I accept your ruling, but I'm still confused by what is supposedly happening in this scenario. So my final question is this: What is the difference between a monster which states that I "lose two equipped items" prior to combat and one that states I discard them. (And if there's no difference, why do the rules differentiate between those terms?)
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:34 PM   #6
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Rick and Morty Munchkin Questions

I think you're trying to draw a fine distinction that isn't intended. Sometimes we say "lose" instead of "discard," or vice versa, because we needed a shorter or longer word for the layout or because we just want a little variety. It's not a hard-and-fast "lose means ABC and discard means ABD" difference.
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