07-03-2020, 06:36 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA USA
|
Groin Shots
This is a suggestion for greater realism in games. There has long been an issue in GURPS in which an attack to the genital region is more effective on "male" characters (presumably characters with male external genital organs) than "female" ones (which would seem to be characters with female external genital organs). The problem is that both types of external genital organs are subject to broadly similar, if different in some details, effects when experiencing traumatic injury. I'd propose that all characters without appropriate Injury Tolerance should take double shock and increased knockdown penalties from crushing attacks, and this probably should be incorporated as an official correction.
For those who don't believe it to be the case, there is a whole category of YouTube videos documenting female groin trauma in women's soccer/football, martial arts, and similar situations (and there are also male "nut shot" videos, of course, but I doubt anyone is going to contest those), for example this playlist. Yes, it's a fringe case, and yes, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the game as a whole, but it is an area in which, it seems, sexist jokes about "nut shots" have affected design decisions in place of the usual GURPS commitment to accuracy. |
07-04-2020, 04:46 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
|
Re: Groin Shots
FWIW, the Society for Creative Anachronism has defined female armor standards for both Light Weapons (i.e., rapier play) and Heavy Weapons (i.e., full contact stick fighting) fighters. Both standards require the groin to be armored.
As a slight rules simplification, it makes sense for "generic humanoids" to have the same combat vulnerabilities regardless of sex. |
07-05-2020, 05:59 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
Re: Groin Shots
Hmm...
Could the typical differences between male genitals and female genitals explain why it is handled differently? Really asking, as this is one of the many areas where I'm pretty clueless. I've longer than I can clearly remember that yeah, it isn't pleasant for someone with female genitals to take a hit there, but for years I guess I just assumed that the difference between the two was significant enough to warrant RAW handling things how it does. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of how much injury must be taken, and how hard it is (or is not) to target the groin under these differing circumstances.
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 07-05-2020 at 06:03 PM. |
07-05-2020, 06:50 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
|
Re: Groin Shots
From what I understand, on humans a groin hit is indeed more painful/incapacitating to an intact male than to a female or a eunuch, although at GURPS levels of resolution it would probably be OK to ignore this and treat the hit location equally for all sexes. Honestly, while -3 is arguably appropriate for targeting the pelvis, actually striking someone in the genitals should have a higher associated penalty (probably -5 or -6). I'd say such a hit should be treated similarly to a strike to the solar plexus (Vitals for crushing attacks), with an HT roll against knockdown/stunning if it produces any Shock (HT-5 for a Major Wound), but no increased Shock penalty (getting hit in the solar plexus also hurts quite a bit).
Bio Tech suggests males who lack any sort of groin vulnerability have an Advantage worth [2] (Testicle Tuck, Bio172). Under the above revision, I'd suggest if you opt to still have males suffer increased Shock, that's worth [-1]; meanwhile, a character who lacks the above weakness has an Advantage worth [1].
__________________
GURPS Overhaul |
07-05-2020, 07:09 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Hall of Fallen Columns
|
Re: Groin Shots
Quote:
In women, the relevant structures are higher up in the pelvis, closer to the lower belly. In men, they're inconveniently located in a "funnel" created by the inner thighs, so that a rising attack like a kick will easily be funnelled by the natural shape of the legs directly into the vulnerable area. It probably also differs from person to person. But I'd estimate the difference might be: pain to standard tissue (imagine somebody flicking your earlobe) vs. pain to high-sensitivity tissue like visceral nerve endings (imagine somebody flicking your eyeball). I've also been in the presence of a female friend who took an (accidental) strike to the groin during a contact sport - her reaction showed that it's definitely not a trivial thing for a woman either. Though whether it's as debilitating as for a man, is unclear. |
|
07-05-2020, 07:10 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Groin Shots
Quote:
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
|
07-07-2020, 05:44 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
|
Re: Groin Shots
Yeah, I always treat groin shots as vital shots (with rules for crushing dmg from Martial Arts) :P It's just silly for me, that you can withstand strong nutshot and don't go to ground
|
07-07-2020, 06:24 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Groin Shots
HT-5 if it's a big hit is a pretty serious roll for most characters. Of course, hitting a Berserker like that might not have the effect you expected.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
07-08-2020, 07:54 PM | #9 |
Guest
|
Re: Groin Shots
I've taken full hits to the groin and kept fighting, unwavered. I've also taken light taps to the groin and dropped like a stone. I think that's well represented in the vagaries of the dice roll.
|
|
|