Patron and its problems

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

However I am trying to follow the pattern of 1% of assets as intended by Pulling Rank. By 30 CP the maximum budget for a single project would be 2 billion dollars... which is not enough according to the following actual numbers:

Not so expensive projects:
Global Positioning System (22bn)
Manhattan Project (30bn)
Saab JAS 39 Gripen (19bn)

Some jewels of the crown:
Apollo program (203.4bn)
Delhi Mumbai Industrial Corridor (90bn)
Khazar Islands (100bn)
Space Shuttle program (203.6bn)

Thus needing a 40 CP Patron, just like the Enemy disadvantage.

Patron is not intended to be used for such purposes. Having a nation for a patron is not the same thing a ruling a nation.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

However I am trying to follow the pattern of 1% of assets as intended by Pulling Rank. By 30 CP the maximum budget for a single project would be 2 billion dollars... which is not enough according to the following actual numbers:

Not so expensive projects:
Global Positioning System (22bn)
Manhattan Project (30bn)
Saab JAS 39 Gripen (19bn)

Wait a minute. You're envisioning that Secret Agent VII, a player character in your campaign, should be able to call up HQ and say, "I need to destroy the capital of Evillistan. Please develop an unprecedented new type of bomb powerful enough to flatten an entire city in one explosion." Because that's what a Patron roll is for: Aid that an individual adventurer can call upon during a mission or venture. The Hiroshima bomb doesn't seem remotely to fit that category. If the GURPS rules don't let a character requisition one, I'm not seeing that as a failure of the rules.

[Kalzazz]

It could be argued that some countries might be less than 30pt patrons, I'm not sure for instance whether Iceland is maybe

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Wait a minute. You're envisioning that Secret Agent VII, a player character in your campaign, should be able to call up HQ and say, "I need to destroy the capital of Evillistan. Please develop an unprecedented new type of bomb powerful enough to flatten an entire city in one explosion." Because that's what a Patron roll is for: Aid that an individual adventurer can call upon during a mission or venture. The Hiroshima bomb doesn't seem remotely to fit that category. If the GURPS rules don't let a character requisition one, I'm not seeing that as a failure of the rules.

Well, I'm actually envisioning a country running its own projects, or the president signing the budget for a war conflict, the construction of a new city or the development of a space colonization program.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

It could be argued that some countries might be less than 30pt patrons, I'm not sure for instance whether Iceland is maybe

Pah! It's infinite points because of sheer awesomeness!

[Nemoricus]

The Patron/Pulling Rank rules are not appropriate for that use, which cover how a more powerful entity interacts with an agent. Matters of national policy fall into the realm of GM fiat, since to my knowledge GURPS does not address such matters.

Out of curiosity, do you envision your players running a government? That’s the only situation where I can see rules for this being useful.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Well, I'm actually envisioning a country running its own projects, or the president signing the budget for a war conflict, the construction of a new city or the development of a space colonization program.

Operations like that are not Patron. They're Rank. And usually massive projects like that require multiple authorizations for components of the whole business.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Well, I'm actually envisioning a country running its own projects, or the president signing the budget for a war conflict, the construction of a new city or the development of a space colonization program.

Then the rules you're using do not apply, not even to give you a ballpark estimate.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Operations like that are not Patron. They're Rank.

Excuse me but according to several books Rank is directly linked to Patron. It is even specifically used to replace Patron.

[Nemoricus]

That’s correct, but the important point is that neither Patron nor Pulling Rank cover a character who is involved in the organization’s highest levels of decision making.