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02-10-2008, 04:30 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
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Grapple and Posture
Yup, me again!
The description of the Judo Throw on MA75 says that you do not lose your grapple on an opponent after a successful throw, only on a critical failure. But B370 says that "to grapple a prone, kneeling, or sitting opponent you must kneel or lie down yourself". Should I take this to mean that if you throw your opponent, you can maintain your grapple while he is prone and you are standing; but if you are standing, to actually establish a grapple on a prone (or kneeling, or sitting) opponent you need to adjust your posture?
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02-10-2008, 05:00 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
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Re: Grapple and Posture
The way I would read that would be to say that you can retain your grab if throwing, but you have to 'follow' the thrown person (into a kneeling or prone position), so you automatically changes posture as part of the throw.
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02-10-2008, 05:19 PM | #3 |
"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Re: Grapple and Posture
The only problem with this is you don't have to do this in real life if you have a limb grappled. You can remain standing if you have a leg or arm in a lock. For torso or head, I would say you had to be a step removed from the targets posture(kneeling for a prone target, etc.)
However, on a strictly rules interpretation, the Judo skill itself (B203) says nothing about having a grapple when executing a Judo throw. All it says that after a successful parry, you may attempt to throw them. So, looking only at Basic, I would say that the Judo throw is itself not a grapple, and therefore you do not retain a grapple when tossing someone to the ground. Adding in the MA text on MA75, I would say that you only retain a grapple if you first grapple your opponent, and follow that up with a throw, per the rules on MA75. In this case you only lose the grapple on a critical failure. From my personal experience, it's not that hard to hold on to part of someone you are throwing, as people tend to cling to things when they get lifted into the air. *EDIT* And mook, to address your question specifically, I would interpret it as, if you throw someone while grappled, you may remain standing if you have a limb or change to kneeling if you have a head or torso. If you are attempting to grapple with them already in another position, you must do so in the same posture they are in, as you don't have the option of just hanging on as you toss them to the ground. Excellent work on the combat examples, btw. Really interesting stuff. Last edited by Crakkerjakk; 02-10-2008 at 05:30 PM. |
02-10-2008, 05:23 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
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Re: Grapple and Posture
Perhaps my idea of a throw where you retain the hold is actually more like a Grab and Smash. I do not have any real experience with this outside of 'for fun' wrestling when I was a teenager, where I seem to recall that if you got someone to the floor you either had to let go, or go down with them.
But that was just for fun and none of us had ANY training at all. |
02-10-2008, 05:34 PM | #5 |
"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Re: Grapple and Posture
No offense meant here, but thats the difference between Brawling and Judo, Maz. Most of the martial arts that deal with tossing people make it fairly easy to hold onto the person being tossed. In fact, a lot of times thats how you slow down the throws so you don't hurt your partner when sparring.
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02-10-2008, 06:12 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Grapple and Posture
Quote:
Considering that a throw from an arm or leg lock can damage the limb it certainly sounds like you'd still be holding on for at least most of the trip. |
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02-10-2008, 06:14 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
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Re: Grapple and Posture
Quote:
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My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman |
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03-26-2017, 10:55 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
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Re: Grapple and Posture
Whoa. The weird thing isn't that you're posting in a 9-year-old thread... it's that I was working on and researching these examples two hours ago. Creepy.
Anyway, looking back over the discussion, I can't quite nail down why I thought it was assumed a grapple is maintained after throwing an opponent (I have no problem believing you can, but it doesn't seem to be the RAW default assumption). Unless anyone has thoughts on how/why that actually is the default assumption, I will update my examples FAQ accordingly.
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How to Be a GURPS GM, author Game Geekery, Blog (GURPS combat examples, fillable PDF sheets, rules summaries, campaigns and one-shots, beginners' intro) GURPS Discord, unofficial hangout and real-time chat |
03-26-2017, 01:11 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Grapple and Posture
Quote:
Many out there will know the rest of the quote -- and the proper response. |
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03-27-2017, 11:10 AM | #10 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Grapple and Posture
You eat a lot of acid, Hellboy, back in the hippie days?
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