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Old 12-19-2019, 03:40 PM   #1
GarenLiLorian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Default [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic (pg 33) says:

Quote:
An enchanted item is bought as an advantage (... with the...) limitation Magical, which reflects the fact that they don't work in desecrated areas, are subject to counterspells, and count as a charm toward the owner's maximum conditional spells.
I have a couple of questions. Cohen the Barbarian has retrieved the Serpent-Slaying Sword of Ur from the lost temple. It's a legendary weapon; in addition to being balanced and very fine, it grants Extra Attack 2 (50 cp, minus gadget limitations (DR6: 10%, Stolen by DX: 30%, SM -3: 15%, and power mod: 10% for a total of 18cp).

He's got the cp and wants to attune to it, however, he has no Magery or Thaumatology skill, so his maximum conditional spells are...
a) Equal to his Thaumatology default (IQ-7)?
b) Non-existent and he can't use magic items until he puts a point in Thaumatology?
c) Something else?

A few days later, he's set upon by dark wizards who have prepared a counterspell against his sword.
- What does this counterspell look like? A counterspell usually is lesser destroy magic + the energy of the spell to be countered. Is this the CP cost of the sword? Does the wizard need to pay for duration, subject weight, or anything else?
- Magic vs. Magic (RPM Pg. 24) says the sword resists using the Path skill used to cast the spell in the first place; does this require reverse-engineering the ritual necessary to imbue such a sword? Eyeballing it, Greater Strengthen (Body? Matter? Both?) to add 50 cp of advantages permanently would require quite a high Path skill!
- Assuming the sword fails its resistance roll, how long is it dispelled for? Permanently until Cohen can get the sword re-enchanted? Minutes equal to margin of victory, like Neutralize? As much duration as the wizard pays for? If they don't pay for duration, is it just a single second?

Last edited by GarenLiLorian; 12-19-2019 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Math error!
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Old 12-19-2019, 05:31 PM   #2
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

It would be his default and, since Cohen probably has IQ 12, that would give him 5 conditional spell slots. The energy cost of a magical item is probably 25×CP, as each CP requires 25 days of enchantment and slow and sure enchantment is one energy per day, so a 20 CP magical item would likely effectively be a 500 energy spell. The total modifier is -65% by the way, so the sword is worth 18 CP.
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Old 12-19-2019, 05:57 PM   #3
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

For counterspelling, since the bound magic items are built (mechanically) as Advantages, I'd calculate the cost to grant the same Advantage with Altered traits (RPM 16) -- +1 energy per CP as the base cost. If the item is granting you some Advantage, presumably it's doing so via Altered Traits.

You might also work up a spell that produces the same effect as the Advantage, but without using Altered Traits, and use its cost as the energy you have to counterspell, but that seems like more work.

I'd let enemy mages counter one effect at a time, if the item grants multiple effects, and they want to be selective for some reason. If they've got the mojo, I'd also them them shut down multiple effects or the entire item with one spell. You might feel that shutting down an item should be an all-or-nothing affair.
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Old 12-19-2019, 06:36 PM   #4
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenLiLorian View Post
I have a couple of questions. Cohen the Barbarian has retrieved the Serpent-Slaying Sword of Ur from the lost temple. It's a legendary weapon; in addition to being balanced and very fine, it grants Extra Attack 2 (50 cp, minus gadget limitations (DR6: 10%, Stolen by DX: 30%, SM -3: 15%, and power mod: 10% for a total of 18cp).

He's got the cp and wants to attune to it, however, he has no Magery or Thaumatology skill, so his maximum conditional spells are...
a) Equal to his Thaumatology default (IQ-7)?
b) Non-existent and he can't use magic items until he puts a point in Thaumatology?
c) Something else?
It's A.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenLiLorian View Post
- What does this counterspell look like? A counterspell usually is lesser destroy magic + the energy of the spell to be countered. Is this the CP cost of the sword? Does the wizard need to pay for duration, subject weight, or anything else?
You can't counterspell a magic item. You must suppress it. That's a Greater Destroy effect. You'll need to add Duration (for how long you want to keep it down), Subject Weight (if needed, probably not for most weapons), and Range (if you want to affect it at a distance). Finally, you'll need to add Altered Traits, Disadvantage to suppress the magical powers of the sword. In this case your base spell line would look like this:

Typical Casting: Greater Destroy Magic (5) + Altered Traits, Negate Sword (4) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Range, 2 yards (0) + Subject Weight, 10 lbs. (0). 30 energy (10x3).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenLiLorian View Post
- Magic vs. Magic (RPM Pg. 24) says the sword resists using the Path skill used to cast the spell in the first place; does this require reverse-engineering the ritual necessary to imbue such a sword? Eyeballing it, Greater Strengthen (Body? Matter? Both?) to add 50 cp of advantages permanently would require quite a high Path skill!
No. You just need the Path skill. If you don't know I'd assume 15 for most enchanted items. Remember, enchanted items have a HT of 12 so even if the Path skill is 11 or less to make them they'd roll 12 vs. magical spells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenLiLorian View Post
- Assuming the sword fails its resistance roll, how long is it dispelled for? Permanently until Cohen can get the sword re-enchanted? Minutes equal to margin of victory, like Neutralize? As much duration as the wizard pays for? If they don't pay for duration, is it just a single second?
For whatever the duration the wizard used for the spell.
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:36 PM   #5
GarenLiLorian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Default Re: [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post

You can't counterspell a magic item. You must suppress it. That's a Greater Destroy effect. You'll need to add Duration (for how long you want to keep it down), Subject Weight (if needed, probably not for most weapons), and Range (if you want to affect it at a distance). Finally, you'll need to add Altered Traits, Disadvantage to suppress the magical powers of the sword. In this case your base spell line would look like this:

Typical Casting: Greater Destroy Magic (5) + Altered Traits, Negate Sword (4) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Range, 2 yards (0) + Subject Weight, 10 lbs. (0). 30 energy (10x3).
Thanks for the response! The above ritual would negate any 20 point advantage, regardless of source though, right? For example, it would equally negate someone’s Elastic Skin advantage. But the magical limitation specifically has a “vulnerable to counterspells” facet to it. Does that not come into play when using RPM specifically to “counterspell” advantages with that limitation? In other words, what does the phrase “subject to counterspells” in the RPM book (when talking about advantages with the Magical limitation mean?
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:14 PM   #6
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Counterspelling magic items

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarenLiLorian View Post
Thanks for the response! The above ritual would negate any 20 point advantage, regardless of source though, right? For example, it would equally negate someone’s Elastic Skin advantage. But the magical limitation specifically has a “vulnerable to counterspells” facet to it. Does that not come into play when using RPM specifically to “counterspell” advantages with that limitation? In other words, what does the phrase “subject to counterspells” in the RPM book (when talking about advantages with the Magical limitation mean?
So in this case, no. You're exchanging specifics for specialties - you're negatting a magical item that has up to 20 points of properties. “vulnerable to counterspells” is a term of art - it also encompasses dispeling or temporary suffocation of abilities.
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