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Old 09-20-2019, 02:06 AM   #81
Michele
 
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Regarding GURPS stats for Nobel prizes winners the Who Who's books list several but none of them is IQ 20. I have also included the skill most relevant to the Nobel Prize they got.

Rudyard Kipling: IQ 13; Writing-20 (literature)
Albert Einstein: IQ 15; Physics-22 (physics)
Theodore Roosevelt: IQ 14; Diplomacy-12, Politics-17, Savoir-Faire-16 (peace negotiations)
Sir Winston Churchill: IQ 14; Writing-18 (Literature)
Ernest Miller Hemingway: IQ 13; Writing-19 (Literature)

As you can see from this is wasn't high IQ but rather high skill in the related profession. Teddy is more the interaction of skill rather then just one and he may have used other things to get the peace negotiations to completion that aren't immediately obvious.

Side notes: GURPS Who's Who 1 and 2 are the works I would really like to see an update for.
Hear, hear. It's skills, and real-world persons do specialize in maybe as few as two (sometimes related) skills, or at most a handful.
And yes, I'd like to see an update of Who's Who, myself.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:18 AM   #82
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

I fully do agree with Michele and every one who said the same thing. Realistic outstanding people have outstanding skills, not outstanding attributes.

The problem comes from the fact that creating a character like Einstein with low attributes and high skills costs much more points than creating a character with higher attributes. While the rules about starting points say that realistic characters have fewer points than heroic ones.

But that is not really a problem. Beginning characters are not supposed to be as bright as Einstein when they begin they very first adventure.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:50 AM   #83
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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I fully do agree with Michele and every one who said the same thing. Realistic outstanding people have outstanding skills, not outstanding attributes.
What about people like hafthor bjornsson?

Weight 441 lbs. 200 kg
Height 6'9" 206 cm

I'm pretty sure even with KYOS he'll still have a pretty high ST score.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:36 AM   #84
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
I fully do agree with Michele and every one who said the same thing. Realistic outstanding people have outstanding skills, not outstanding attributes.

The problem comes from the fact that creating a character like Einstein with low attributes and high skills costs much more points than creating a character with higher attributes. While the rules about starting points say that realistic characters have fewer points than heroic ones.

But that is not really a problem. Beginning characters are not supposed to be as bright as Einstein when they begin they very first adventure.
Funny thing is, under 3e rules Einstein was built with only 74 points, well reachable as a beginning character in a 100 point campaign. The many changes put him in at 150 points assuming you keep the IQ 15.
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Last edited by maximara; 09-20-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:39 AM   #85
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

Einstein would have made a very poor dungeon delver.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:40 AM   #86
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
What about people like hafthor bjornsson?

Weight 441 lbs. 200 kg
Height 6'9" 206 cm

I'm pretty sure even with KYOS he'll still have a pretty high ST score.
Strength is a bit of an exception to the rule. Literally given how different the mechanics of Strength from any of the other characteristics.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:16 PM   #87
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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Einstein would have made a very poor dungeon delver.
Raphael Holyoak would be in a better situation and he is only 13 points more under 4e.
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:00 PM   #88
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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What about people like hafthor bjornsson?

Weight 441 lbs. 200 kg
Height 6'9" 206 cm

I'm pretty sure even with KYOS he'll still have a pretty high ST score.
It has been discussed over and over in many threads ... But no matter, let's see the arguments again ...

Is Hafthor Bjornsson a ST 20 character in GURPS terms? ST 20 = BL 80 = can lift 640 lbs over his head dozens of times without the least hour of training and without the least extra effort.

So, the answer is no, even if he is very strong, he isn't as strong than that.

St 19? 577,6 lbs over his head without effort nor training. ST 18? 518,4 lbs ... And so on ...

So, Mr Hafthor Bjornsson is strong, yes. Very strong. But ST 15, the good skills, and extra effort may be enough for what he does. Because he is very well trained and makes a lot of efforts for his feats.
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Last edited by Gollum; 09-20-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:24 PM   #89
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

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It has been discussed over and over in many threads ... But no matter, let's see the arguments again ...

Is Hafthor Bjornsson a ST 20 character in GURPS terms? ST 20 = BL 80 = can lift 640 lbs over his head dozens of times without the least hour of training and without the least extra effort.

So, the answer is no, even if he is very strong, he isn't as strong than that.

St 19? 577,6 lbs over his head without effort nor training. ST 18? 518,4 lbs ... And so on ...

So, Mr Hafthor Bjornsson is strong, yes. Very strong. But ST 15, the good skills, and extra effort may be enough for what he does. Because he is very well trained and makes a lot of efforts for his feats.
Also BL is lifting something over your head in one hand in one second.

If you watch him setting the world record (1,041 lb) for the Elephant Bar deadlift you will see he is using two hands, takes it only to his waist, and takes about 4-5 seconds to do it ( 1:16-1:21).

Per B353 a One-Handed Lift is 2xBL (Light Encumbrance) and takes two seconds while a Two-Handed Lift is 8xBL and takes four seconds with no training. So we have Weight*5/8 or 650.625.

But Lifting gives +5% per amount the roll succeeded so just a 1 point success margin reduces a ~ST 25 to ST 24 and a 10 point margin gets you down to ST 20.

That is ignoring the extra effort which is a will roll and gives +5% to ST itself for each -1 to the Will roll so the (ST*ST)/5 formula becomes (ST*1.05*ST*1.05)/5 or (ST*ST)*1.1025/5 which gets the ST 20 down to 18 and a -2 to will gets 16.5 and -3 get us down to ST 15.1.

As you can see the way skills and attributes interact makes things get complicated in a hurry.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:46 PM   #90
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Default Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People

Lifting and Extra Effort modify BL, not ST (Basic, p. 205 & p. 353).
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