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Old 05-16-2019, 02:10 PM   #31
RobW
 
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Default Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?

Would you be willing to elaborate with some concrete examples?
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The thief behind the curtain sees the dog bark at him, the wizard doesn't...), so I would avoid it.
This one I think is dealt with above. The thief's and the wizard's beliefs form the knot of force for the illusory dog. The thief believes the dog sees him and so it does.

But if the thief wasn't part of this knot (eg oblivious behind the castle wall) then his beliefs have no bearing on the illusion.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?

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Would you be willing to elaborate with some concrete examples?
Okay, consider a wolf illusion, and two thieves hidden behind two curtains. The thieves know of one another's presence, the wizard knows of neither one.

Thief A believes that wolves have a keen sense of smell and will detect both of them.

Thief B believes that wolves have an unremarkable sense of smell and will detect neither of them.

Which, if any, thieves does the wolf detect? Does it matter what the wizard believes about wolf senses? Does it matter whose belief about wolf senses is correct?
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:11 PM   #34
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Default Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?

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Which, if any, thieves does the wolf detect? Does it matter what the wizard believes about wolf senses? Does it matter whose belief about wolf senses is correct?
Easy questions first:
It does matter what the wizard believes about the illusion, as he is part of the knot of force.

Correct belief matters, but indirectly. Only because in most situations illusions are of common beings for which knowledge is shared and accurate. When illusions are exotic and there is little knowledge or strong belief, then they can't be as effective.

The money question.
Who gets detected -- hmm. I'll pretend I'm GM.

As given, I don't find B's belief structure very compelling, and barring some strong backstory, I'd rule this belief is not of the same importance as the more strongly held beliefs of the other two. So, wolf finds both.

I'd also hold the reverse, if A were an naturalist, then his belief structure would be even stronger and more influential, and the wolf would be more likely to behave like a real wolf.

I'd also allow the salience of belief to have effect. FOr example, wolf appears. Both A and B think, that goodness it can't see us. Then the thought just pops into A's mind, but what if it can smell us?!?!? The salience of this realisation has great impact and bam, the illusion now sniffs them out.

Maybe the wizard encourages this by having the wolf sniff around.

That is, by influencing the beliefs of observers, the wizard might affect the ability of the illusion.

Another GM might rule the wolf finds neither. Maybe B knows the stereotype of wolf smell is actually wrong. But the principles would be the same: (1) there is one knot of force; (2) that knot is formed by the beliefs of sentient creatures present; (3) everyone will agree on its effects, eg how much damage its bite does.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?

But just to emphasise, all the stuff above is for a hard and unusual case, where the players and GM might think the details matter.

In a regular battle, the illusions would behave as if they had their own senses.
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