09-21-2017, 06:06 PM | #21 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
Yes, the real world ambiguity of folkloric sources compared to monster manual taxonomic specificity is exactly why GURPS sucks.
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09-21-2017, 06:25 PM | #22 |
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
The idea is to have interesting differences between monsters so that there is variety. These are just suggestions to make the gaming experience more interesting. Believe it or not some people enjoy having some explanation as to why a monster is sitting in a dungeon.
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09-21-2017, 06:29 PM | #23 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
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09-21-2017, 07:00 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
DF is a kitchen sink fantasy game which means it takes fantasy from many sources and puts them together. When people think of demons, one version that comes up is the Christian concept of demons where they were one angels that have fallen and chosen to be evil. The Christian concept is over represented because it is so well known. Other demons that come from myths are evil beings that just came into being and opposed the gods. It is true that the latter is far more prevalent in myths but the former is more popular due to religion.
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09-21-2017, 07:17 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
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09-21-2017, 10:21 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
I am very happy that Dungeon Fantasy, while a complete game, doesn't waste any pages hammering out a setting that I will very likely not be using. If I wanted to play AD&D, I'd be playing AD&D. It isn't hard to find copies of. Instead I am looking forward to a great many things that I can drop into appropriate places in a setting of my choosing/creation without having to sort out a bunch of extraneous information that won't be at all useful to my goals in any way.
I have played with a devil/demon dichotomy for over a quarter of a century. I am very familiar with all aspects of The Great Wheel. If the DFRPG tried to file the serial numbers down on those tropes I would not be half as interested or inspired by the game as I feel I am. Thank goodness that the DFRPG writers had the vision to give the game a sturdy foundation with plenty of room for customization and expansion instead of pigeonholing every aspect possible into tight little boxes. . . . b-dog... by all means, making things from AD&D to fit into the DFRPG is a great goal. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in that and a lot of good work can come from it. However, you seem to have a persistent notion that the DFRPG must be some sort of AD&D/mythological pastiche or setting clone. This is neither necessary nor helpful and detracts from what creative ideas or analytical translations of existing works that you put forward. |
09-22-2017, 08:00 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
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Demi Benson |
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09-22-2017, 08:43 AM | #28 |
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
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09-22-2017, 09:36 AM | #29 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
I seem to recall Ars Magica having a distinction between "hell bent" and "heaven sent" as far as demons. I think creating those distinctions can be fun for a given GM or setting ... is "demon" just what everyone calls anything they don't understand, or perhaps it's an elaborate hierarchy of origin and deed among demons, devils, daemons, deevils, etc. I think the idea of adding variety is cool, but personally find the AD&D demon / devils overplayed (as a long time player) ... but no reason one couldn't take elements they like and remix.
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09-22-2017, 10:37 AM | #30 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spain —Europe
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Re: It would be nice to have some AD&D style demons and devils
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"Demons formed from pure evil", instead, relate to dualistic cosmologies (in the Gnostic/Manichaean/Cathar sense), or even to maltheism (in the sense of darkness as "the only true principle"). Another origin for devils (or demons) is they as the "dark brothers" of angels (or plural divinities), matching with cosmic dualities (not to mistake with dualism, which is irresolvable), again originating from a single extra-cosmic source. This can be found in Hinduism. Even deep layers of meaning redeeming "the demonic" by linking it with the unmanifest as the upper darkness, have nothing to do with the distinction you're looking for. Quote:
— I don't see how any of these angles matches with the demons & devils distinction enunciated in this thread, and for what it's worth I don't find it very meaningful. As it has been said above, all of it is related to an opposition between lawful and chaotic alignments between the very infernal beings, which is a very specific setting assumpion, the Blood War. It lacks universality, intrinsic sense, and I can't find anything matching with such a thing in myth, cosmology, folklore or theology. Quote:
Now, the distinction between fallen angels and beings native to hell makes sense in itself, but calling devils the former and the latter demons, or vice versa, still is rather peculiar.
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cosmology, demons |
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