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Old 04-12-2008, 08:44 AM   #11
Collective_Restraint
 
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by GoblynByte
But, kicking is still possible to perform "untrained" at the DX-2 level. Is that all correct?
Correct. I don't know if you have any training yourself personally but if I would ask you to kick me, I'm sure you would be able, even if you wouldn't have any brawling or karate training.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint
Correct. I don't know if you have any training yourself personally but if I would ask you to kick me, I'm sure you would be able, even if you wouldn't have any brawling or karate training.
Oh, I wasn't arguing the realism of the rule. Just that I was understanding how it was written. ;) If kicking wasn't possible without training in combat we'd have a bunch of kung fu soccer players. ;)
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by GoblynByte
Oh, I wasn't arguing the realism of the rule. Just that I was understanding how it was written. ;) If kicking wasn't possible without training in combat we'd have a bunch of kung fu soccer players. ;)
The kicking you're talking about is another skill :) It is Sports (Soccer) DX/Average, B222. They don't kick to try to deal damage :)
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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It's the bit where Brawling is innately ambidextrous that makes it useful for parrying. Martial Arts presents an optional rule to tone this down, but as written, it's a nice edge.
Sure, but I see nothing in the RAW suggesting that an unskilled combatant using DX for punching and kicking *can't* parry with the off hand at -4 to skill (-2 to Parry, right?), just as he or she could with a sword in the off hand even if operating at default. With the actual Ambidexterity advantage, there wouldn't even be a penalty. Therefore, there would still be two parries, one with each hand/weapon.

Or am I reading the RAW incorrectly?
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint
The kicking you're talking about is another skill :) It is Sports (Soccer) DX/Average, B222. They don't kick to try to deal damage :)
Sure, but it would cause damage. Hence the default off DX and the fact that they would probably be "stronger" and thus would cause more damage. I mean, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be kicked by a soccer player. ;p Well, I wouldn't want to be kicked by anybody. But certainly not by someone who could put my head through the "up rights." (yes, I know that's football).

But anybody who has been around an angry kid knows that everyone knows how to kick. And never pick up an angry child who has learned how to kick. Ouch!!
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by GoblynByte
I mean, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be kicked by a soccer player. ;p
Of course a ST 12 football* player will deal more damage than a ST 8 chess player... but I wouldn't say that Sports (Football) increases kick damage or Kicking skill.

If you think of it, football players are trained to execute very low kicks, and emphasize speed and accuracy rather than power; even "powerful football kicks" don't involve the kind of body motions that produce strong martial art kicks or fists.

(* I am using "football" in the british, european and international sense, not the US one)
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by vitruvian
Sure, but I see nothing in the RAW suggesting that an unskilled combatant using DX for punching and kicking *can't* parry with the off hand at -4 to skill (-2 to Parry, right?), just as he or she could with a sword in the off hand even if operating at default. With the actual Ambidexterity advantage, there wouldn't even be a penalty. Therefore, there would still be two parries, one with each hand/weapon.

Or am I reading the RAW incorrectly?
Y'know, I wonder what skill I use when I parry a blade with my bare arm when fighting single sword style while fencing...

It's not Brawling or any of those skills, because I didn't learn to strike. Now I'm learning that I would have had an extra penalty to parry because it's off-handed...
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

Is it a component of your fencing style? It could be subsumed in Rapier (or whatever) in the same way that bashing with the pommel or reading enemy Feints is.

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Old 04-12-2008, 02:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45
Is it a component of your fencing style?
Well, we train with sword and sword, sword and dagger (Main Gauche), sword and cloak, sword and buckler, and single sword; so in as much as any of them are, yes.

But yes, parrying with the off hand is what we're trained to do with the rapier.

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It could be subsumed in Rapier (or whatever)
That's what I'd think, personally.

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in the same way that bashing with the pommel
I thought bashing with the pommel would be Brawling?

Quote:
or reading enemy Feints is.
I can certainly see that argument, at least...
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Old 04-12-2008, 03:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: The "point" to Brawling...

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Originally Posted by Lonewulf
I thought bashing with the pommel would be Brawling?
You are correct, per MA 111, "Pummeling." Dx-1, Brawling-1, or Karate-1 are the relevant skills.

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