07-10-2017, 12:53 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
Quote:
A better hole in the whole argument is justifying a shield as "cover" in the first place. The shield section in equipment in Characters doesn't actually say they can be cover. If we just want to design more rules for the fun of it, then there's no reason shields should have any special rules. See the existing RAW for the random chance of attacks hitting cover instead of target locations, and just use those to implement shields. Why have a special case system for shields at all? They're just a small piece of portable cover. |
|
07-10-2017, 03:11 PM | #22 | |||
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
Quote:
Quote:
There's no question that a shield can be cover. The question is, how much cover, how can you arrange that cover, how fast can you do it, and what if any rolls are involved. Quote:
There have been better developed versions of the idea of replacing the shield rules with something cover-like.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
|||
07-10-2017, 05:39 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
Quote:
(Compare the various arguments about "blocks" or "parries" having stop a weapon from moving altogether versus deflecting it from its target, even though those words, too, are just the handles for mechanics.) There's no reason the "dive for cover" rule means you can't use your shield as the cover for which you're "diving". Even if you insist on ending up prone while the shield-cover means you could wind up kneeling -- or MUST wind up kneeling, if one wanted to be dogmatic about that interpretation of the phrase -- that's a far smaller and less intrusive change than inventing entirely new rules that ultimately have about the same effect. The OP was complaining that bearers of large shields can't use them to defend against cone attacks and explosions (at least so far as that one player and GM saw it), and wanted some rules to do so. Several posters, including me, have pointed out where RAW does actually provide some defensive benefit for shields in such cases. Sometimes those rules are a little indirect -- as you mention, nowhere do the rules explicitly say that shields can be used as cover, much less against dragon attacks, but start connecting the dots and it's there -- so it's worth pointing out how shields are connected to those other rules. If the OP doesn't like those rules for some reason, then he'll still need to invent new ones. I don't find them unsatisfactory to the point of wanting to replace them. |
|
07-10-2017, 07:19 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
There is no such definition of the word "dive".
This is a stupid argument, but if you're going to make a definitional argument...
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
07-10-2017, 08:04 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
Going for the Rule of Cool and Fun Psudo-Realism here:
You could do a forward dive (more like just fall forward onto your stomach) while bracing the shield over your head. The character would end up with the shield braced into the dirt and angled over the head and shoulders. I'd allow that to count as a 'dodge and drop' and then use the shield as cover DR. Not so great for relatively fragile medieval shields (better than nothing against mild shrapnel though), but pretty viable for a force shield. Given that your whole body would be stretched out behind the shield I'd let it work for even a medium shield, assuming that the direction of the cone attack or shrapnel came from directly forward. For something more enveloping, like fire, maybe only a large shield would be effective since the flames could curl around the edges of the shield so a medium would be too small. For a large shield instead of a dive you could 'drop' to your knees and curl into a ball behind it for similar effect. For any of these I would treat it as an all-out-Defense and require both a dodge roll and a block roll, with both benefiting from the shield's DB. Failing Dodge would mean you didn't get in position fast enough, while failing Block would mean a failure to properly brace or position the shield (although if successful the Dodge would still allow the character to have changed position in time which has implications for shrapnel to-hit rolls).
__________________
FYI: Laser burns HURT! |
07-10-2017, 08:21 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Shields, explosions, area effects, cones and large area attacks
This seems straightforward. You need a ready shield, or take a ready maneuver with an unready one. You need a shield large enough to provide cover -- probably a large shield, maybe a medium (depending on your size). Then you change posture, to kneeling. At that point you are behind cover, which works against even a cone attack. The only game mechanic issue is whether the size of the shield will provide you cover. A roman shield is large, and clearly works. A medium shield, well...maybe. Either way, this a Step And sort of thing.
Edit: Also, the Barricade Tactics perk in Tactical Shooting allows one to get one-step additional cover. It might be a good Perk for campaigns where hiding behind shields is common. So then with a perk the medium shield acts as a large shield.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23. My GURPS blog, Dark Journeys, is here. Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here. Last edited by safisher; 07-11-2017 at 07:41 AM. |
Tags |
block, cones, explosions, gurps, shields |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|