Talents and skill packages with limits?

~~smurf~~ · 01-21-2020, 06:31 PM

After looking at archetypes and lenses etc I thought Talents were one of the best things in 4e.

Some say the Magic system is a nightmare due to learn x to learn y and get to z etc. However, I feel there is a logic to it.

I have been checking through old 3e Spec. Ops. and thought despite the research those package lists are just crazy but they were for the Narrative they were set in.

Talents and skills groups work out great. I decided to create a 12skill/10pts per level Soldering Package, just the basics for a generic future soldier. Anyone with rank in the NCO category should take a level of soldier per every 2 ranks, that is Corporal and Sergeants level 2 levels of Soldier and ranks above in the NCO grade need 3 levels. Of course a character may choose to take addition but limited to 4 levels.

Next I thought an officer would have a 6skill/5pts per level skill package called Command Staff. But they need a level of Soldering to get it, ie they have to do the basics before they can get their officer stuff.

Going back to Spec. Ops I thought I could break down the various forces and groups skills together. Not just limited to Spec Ops.

Heavy Weapon Section: specialising in carrying, maintaining a squad's HW.
Advanced Soldiery: Hiking, boating and other bits of field craft etc (this would probably be the biggest section due to being a gateway into Spec. Ops)

Parachuting
Boating
Armoured Vehicles
etc

However, I am getting bit concerned in abusing the Talent system and wanted to reign it in and came up with options for Talents.

You can know as many different talents equal to your IQ (a bit balls to the wall this one)
You can know as many levels of talents equal to your IQ (maybe too restrictive)
You can know as many levels of talents equal to your IQ +TL setting
You can know as many levels of talents equal to the age of the character

I thought it would be an interesting way to show training in various Spec Ops but know a bit about other things. The HW guy may know how to do all sorts with a GIMPY or SAW but is not as good on the mortar, ATGM, or rocket launcher.

It was also the intention that the various talents would not cross skill but you would have to buy the basic talents first before progressing on.

Infornific · 01-23-2020, 10:05 PM

Do you have the Power Ups for Talents? There's an option for what's called Job Training (I would go with Intensive Training but that's me) that gives a bonus to skills learned in intense training, subject to limitations. It's explicitly intended for things like Special Forces. That's probably more realistic that the default method of exceptional DX and IQ.

dataweaver · 01-23-2020, 11:44 PM

I think it's called Job Training to keep from conflating it with the Intensive Training rules found in the Improvement Through Study rules (Basic Set p.293, and elaborated on in Back to School, p.5). That said, a case could be made that the two systems can't be combined: whole technically there's nothing illegal about applying the Intensive Training rules to Job Training, I would argue that the point cost discount that Job Training gives in contrast to learning each skill individually already accounts for the intensive nature of the training that it represents, and you don't get to benefit any further from it. Reserve Intensive Training for skills that are being learned individually.

~~namada~~ · 01-27-2020, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurf

Some say the Magic system is a nightmare due to learn x to learn y and get to z etc. However, I feel there is a logic to it.

I've never had a problem with the prerequisite of the GURPS Magic system, it's the fact that the system resembles less than 1% of the fantasy novels I've read in my life. The only complaint I've seen voiced repeatedly with the prerequisites is the fact that there are so many "useless" minor spells in the system. That argument makes sense only if you don't cull the list for your setting, IMO, but the amount of work to cull the 1000+ spells in the book is enough to make any sane person go, "Meh, I'll just use some other magic system."

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurf

However, I am getting bit concerned in abusing the Talent system and wanted to reign it in and came up with options for Talents.

I'm not overly familiar with the talent system in Special Ops, however, I am very familiar with munchkins attempting to abuse the talent advantage in 4E. I set a hard limit of 4 talents (on most games), one for each of +4, +3, +2, and +1.

Sorenant · 01-29-2020, 03:15 PM

"Power-Ups 3: Talents" is pretty great, I think the "Smooth Talent Cost" and "Job Training" sections will help you most. Since you mentioned Magic, I never had the chance to actually use it but I always thought using "Talent as Magic" from Fantasy/Thaumatology and "Extended Talent" from PU3 could be interesting.

Regarding limiting the amount of talent, how about using the relative level of Soldier skill? So if you have Soldier at IQ+1, you can pick one MOS Talent, IQ+2 allows two and so on. It's not as restrictive as limiting by IQ and gives a nice palpable benefit to the rather vague Soldier skill.

01-21-2020, 06:31 PM	#1
~~smurf~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol	Talents and skill packages with limits? After looking at archetypes and lenses etc I thought Talents were one of the best things in 4e. Some say the Magic system is a nightmare due to learn x to learn y and get to z etc. However, I feel there is a logic to it. I have been checking through old 3e Spec. Ops. and thought despite the research those package lists are just crazy but they were for the Narrative they were set in. Talents and skills groups work out great. I decided to create a 12skill/10pts per level Soldering Package, just the basics for a generic future soldier. Anyone with rank in the NCO category should take a level of soldier per every 2 ranks, that is Corporal and Sergeants level 2 levels of Soldier and ranks above in the NCO grade need 3 levels. Of course a character may choose to take addition but limited to 4 levels. Next I thought an officer would have a 6skill/5pts per level skill package called Command Staff. But they need a level of Soldering to get it, ie they have to do the basics before they can get their officer stuff. Going back to Spec. Ops I thought I could break down the various forces and groups skills together. Not just limited to Spec Ops. Heavy Weapon Section: specialising in carrying, maintaining a squad's HW. Advanced Soldiery: Hiking, boating and other bits of field craft etc (this would probably be the biggest section due to being a gateway into Spec. Ops) Parachuting Boating Armoured Vehicles etc However, I am getting bit concerned in abusing the Talent system and wanted to reign it in and came up with options for Talents. You can know as many different talents equal to your IQ (a bit balls to the wall this one) You can know as many levels of talents equal to your IQ (maybe too restrictive) You can know as many levels of talents equal to your IQ +TL setting You can know as many levels of talents equal to the age of the character I thought it would be an interesting way to show training in various Spec Ops but know a bit about other things. The HW guy may know how to do all sorts with a GIMPY or SAW but is not as good on the mortar, ATGM, or rocket launcher. It was also the intention that the various talents would not cross skill but you would have to buy the basic talents first before progressing on. Last edited by smurf; 01-21-2020 at 06:34 PM.

01-23-2020, 10:05 PM	#2
Infornific Join Date: Dec 2004	Re: Talents and skill packages with limits? Do you have the Power Ups for Talents? There's an option for what's called Job Training (I would go with Intensive Training but that's me) that gives a bonus to skills learned in intense training, subject to limitations. It's explicitly intended for things like Special Forces. That's probably more realistic that the default method of exceptional DX and IQ.

01-23-2020, 11:44 PM	#3
dataweaver Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: Talents and skill packages with limits? I think it's called Job Training to keep from conflating it with the Intensive Training rules found in the Improvement Through Study rules (Basic Set p.293, and elaborated on in Back to School, p.5). That said, a case could be made that the two systems can't be combined: whole technically there's nothing illegal about applying the Intensive Training rules to Job Training, I would argue that the point cost discount that Job Training gives in contrast to learning each skill individually already accounts for the intensive nature of the training that it represents, and you don't get to benefit any further from it. Reserve Intensive Training for skills that are being learned individually. __________________ Point balance is a myth.[1][2][3][4]

01-29-2020, 03:15 PM	#5
Sorenant Join Date: Jan 2015	Re: Talents and skill packages with limits? "Power-Ups 3: Talents" is pretty great, I think the "Smooth Talent Cost" and "Job Training" sections will help you most. Since you mentioned Magic, I never had the chance to actually use it but I always thought using "Talent as Magic" from Fantasy/Thaumatology and "Extended Talent" from PU3 could be interesting. Regarding limiting the amount of talent, how about using the relative level of Soldier skill? So if you have Soldier at IQ+1, you can pick one MOS Talent, IQ+2 allows two and so on. It's not as restrictive as limiting by IQ and gives a nice palpable benefit to the rather vague Soldier skill.