Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I really don't see the problem. The PM justifies the MA, it doesn't grant it for free. You get what you pay for, and all that.

I didn't say it should grant MA. I said that it would be logical to use PM instead of the books/disks.

[Kromm]

Photographic Memory isn't meant to represent complete, error-free storage of vast reams of data. It's meant to represent human-scale eidetic recall, which is considerably more fallible. For what you want, you'll need Modular Abilities. If the existing versions aren't good enough, use the notes in Powers. Personally, I don't see how Modular Abilities (Computer Brain) fails you here. You just store the programs in your computer brain and call them up; there's no explicit limit as to how many you can store, so if you luck out and download 1,000,000 skill programs, you can store and recall them. This is why it's more costly than Chip Slots and Super-Memorization.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Photographic Memory isn't meant to represent complete, error-free storage of vast reams of data. It's meant to represent human-scale eidetic recall, which is considerably more fallible. For what you want, you'll need Modular Abilities. If the existing versions aren't good enough, use the notes in Powers. Personally, I don't see how Modular Abilities (Computer Brain) fails you here. You just store the programs in your computer brain and call them up; there's no explicit limit as to how many you can store, so if you luck out and download 1,000,000 skill programs, you can store and recall them. This is why it's more costly than Chip Slots and Super-Memorization.

Well, the AI metatrait has the same PM as some human characters. Computer Brain is okay for programs. But what trait describes someone who can instantly memorize data from any medium if not PM? There isn't a trait that allows conversion of books into programs . . .

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Well, the AI metatrait has the same PM as some human characters.

Sure. That represents the ability to play back experiences. This is fine, but not the same as understanding those experiences.

Originally Posted by Molokh

Computer Brain is okay for programs. But what trait describes someone who can instantly memorize data from any medium if not PM? There isn't a trait that allows conversion of books into programs . . .

That's the trait I deem b.s. Converting experiences or readings into skills you can use is called learning. PM has nothing to do with learning, just memorizing. Learning costs points and takes the usual amount of time, even for an AI. I don't buy that an AI needs seconds to learn Physics from a book while a human needs months. That's rubbish. If for some reason you really need AI to work that way in some rubber-science fantasy campaign, use Altered Time Rate. An AI who can learn 100 times faster than humans really does have a 10,000-point advantage, because logically, all of its thought processes should be 100 times faster . . .

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Sure. That represents the ability to play back experiences. This is fine, but not the same as understanding those experiences.


That's the trait I deem b.s. Converting experiences or readings into skills you can use is called learning. PM has nothing to do with learning, just memorizing. Learning costs points and takes the usual amount of time, even for an AI. I don't buy that an AI needs seconds to learn Physics from a book while a human needs months. That's rubbish. If for some reason you really need AI to work that way in some rubber-science fantasy campaign, use Altered Time Rate. An AI who can learn 100 times faster than humans really does have a 10,000-point advantage, because logically, all of its thought processes should be 100 times faster . . .

So only a programmer with 8pts in Piloting can make a vehicular autopilot program of 8pts? That's weird. IIRC the most famous chess program was not made by a chess player of comparable levels.

I like the ATR explanation, except that it underlines the problem with defining the speed of ETS thought processes.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Kromm

An AI who can learn 100 times faster than humans really does have a 10,000-point advantage, because logically, all of its thought processes should be 100 times faster . . .

Should it still cost 10,000-points if it only covers "thought processes"? (No moving 100 times as fast, making 100 extra attacks, etc.)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Molokh

So only a programmer with 8pts in Piloting can make a vehicular autopilot program of 8pts?

Where do you get that? A team of programmers and aerospace engineers takes months to create autopilot programs.

That's weird. IIRC the most famous chess program was not made by a chess player of comparable levels.

They didn't do it in an instant either.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Where do you get that? A team of programmers and aerospace engineers takes months to create autopilot programs.
They didn't do it in an instant either.

Point accepted.

[Kromm]

Then make sure your cinematic AI has a suitable programming skill at a high enough level to accept the -10 for "instant use" to convert experiences into programs, along with MA (Computer Brain) to run the programs.

[Blood Legend]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Where do you get that? A team of programmers and aerospace engineers takes months to create autopilot programs.
They didn't do it in an instant either.

And the computer still lost the first tournament after several draws. IIRC..

Good news! I may or may not be the proud owner of 3 out of 4 DF pdfs! Kudos to me.

Is there a fifth installment planned?