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Old 09-06-2019, 12:22 AM   #241
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
At close combat distance, I think the effort of a step just keeps you in contact with your foe, and anything likely to damage or move him takes enough effort and coordination to be considered an attack.
On equal-scale enemies I agree, I'm just trying to think of edge situations like accidental bumping/trampling of giants into humans, humans into mice, etc.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
So you want to double up slam damage? I don't disagree that in gurps pushes, shoves, and collisions can be rather tame, especially at the man to man level, but I think that gives the character with higher ST a distinct disadvantage from the default rules, and this is a house rule, so it falls into the "maybe next fight" category.
A disadvantage how, defensively?
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:23 AM   #242
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
On equal-scale enemies I agree, I'm just trying to think of edge situations like accidental bumping/trampling of giants into humans, humans into mice, etc.
That's interesting... would the overrun rules work here? Normally those only get triggered on a slam or collision, but allowing an attempt at a penalty (-2? -4?) when moving over a substantially smaller foe. Or it could be a simple attack roll, like and 11 or 10, ignoring the attacks skill (or lack thereof, you mention bumbling giants)

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A disadvantage how, defensively?
because the collisions and slams are contests of strength. When you make them more effective, you raise the utility of strength (which green has more of than red).
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:26 PM   #243
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
That's interesting... would the overrun rules work here? Normally those only get triggered on a slam or collision, but allowing an attempt at a penalty (-2? -4?) when moving over a substantially smaller foe. Or it could be a simple attack roll, like and 11 or 10, ignoring the attacks skill (or lack thereof, you mention bumbling giants)
I guess I just don't like how trampling is purely size-level dependent, it's not like stomp-esque attacks are the only kinds of accidental impacts.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
because the collisions and slams are contests of strength. When you make them more effective, you raise the utility of strength (which green has more of than red).
Collisions/Slams are already HP-based which are ST-based.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:01 PM   #244
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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I guess I just don't like how trampling is purely size-level dependent, it's not like stomp-esque attacks are the only kinds of accidental impacts.
You're the one who brought up mice and giants. If the two characters are of similar size and roughly similar weight then non-attack collisions shouldn't cause damage, unless we're working on scales beyond where gurps works well.

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Collisions/Slams are already HP-based which are ST-based.
Yes, but you're proposing doubling (roughly) the damage. If green was doing 4 before and red 3 before, now green does 8 and red does 6. Green has gained a point of damage over red. When this activity is engaged in, it will be more decisively in green's favor than before, because instead of coming 1 point of damage ahead he will come out 2 points ahead.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:35 PM   #245
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
You're the one who brought up mice and giants. If the two characters are of similar size and roughly similar weight then non-attack collisions shouldn't cause damage, unless we're working on scales beyond where gurps works well.
I guess I'm thinking of terms where it would just be very low damage but humans would have some kind of low damage-absorbing ability to compensate for that and make small falls and small bumps unahrmful.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Yes, but you're proposing doubling (roughly) the damage. If green was doing 4 before and red 3 before, now green does 8 and red does 6. Green has gained a point of damage over red. When this activity is engaged in, it will be more decisively in green's favor than before, because instead of coming 1 point of damage ahead he will come out 2 points ahead.
I didn't really calculate it out, I just was thinking of how to make slamming more attractive.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:09 AM   #246
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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I guess I'm thinking of terms where it would just be very low damage but humans would have some kind of low damage-absorbing ability to compensate for that and make small falls and small bumps unahrmful.
I've often heard it said that gurps would work out better if humans had DR 1, though it would require some other modifications as well.

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I didn't really calculate it out, I just was thinking of how to make slamming more attractive.
And making slamming more attractive is going to favor higher strength characters unless you do it wrong.
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Old 09-24-2019, 12:41 AM   #247
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

DR 1 is pretty hefty, if allowing to track damage in tenths (one decimal place) then DR could be fractional.

I love Cole's idea of randomized HT-based rolls to mitigate damage, but found them overly generous, so using that but MoS reduction is tenths reduced would be one way.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
And making slamming more attractive is going to favor higher strength characters unless you do it wrong.
Well yes, but perhaps there is some way to shift it more in the direction of Striking ST than HP*Velocity without increasing damage.
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:37 PM   #248
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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DR 1 is pretty hefty, if allowing to track damage in tenths (one decimal place) then DR could be fractional.

I love Cole's idea of randomized HT-based rolls to mitigate damage, but found them overly generous, so using that but MoS reduction is tenths reduced would be one way.
I'm convinced its the right value. The reason why is I did an in-depth look at whale stats a while back, and 1/10th to 1/5th of their starting HP as DR gave the right amount of resistance to death by a thousand cuts. The 1/5th I can call blubber, but if you allow damage values under 1/10th of HP to do damage, you run into all sorts of scale problems in all sorts of places, like a volley of musket fire sinking a first rate ship of the line.

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Well yes, but perhaps there is some way to shift it more in the direction of Striking ST than HP*Velocity without increasing damage.
I wouldn't want to. I think the original proposal is the correct one, I just prefer to finish this fight with the current rules.

***************************

What do we still need to decide to precede?
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:00 PM   #249
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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I'm convinced its the right value. The reason why is I did an in-depth look at whale stats a while back, and 1/10th to 1/5th of their starting HP as DR gave the right amount of resistance to death by a thousand cuts. The 1/5th I can call blubber, but if you allow damage values under 1/10th of HP to do damage, you run into all sorts of scale problems in all sorts of places, like a volley of musket fire sinking a first rate ship of the line.
It might be location-specific too, DR normally doesn't apply to eyes so that's not a problem, but maybe some areas like the face/throat/abdomen might have less than tough places like the chest or limbs?

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What do we still need to decide to precede?
Hard to remember where we left off... ugh I think the last action was August 5th

You know, even though you didn't take a Wait, it kind of seems like you ought to get the "Stop Thrust" bonus to the damage of your kick based on the speed I'm traveling toward you unless I explicitly said I was deceleratig/stopping (and thus spending AP to do so) at the end of my turn.

Otherwise it could be assumed I am maintaining my momentum and there shouldn't be any reason that wouldn't amplify your kick like if you interrupted me at full-speed with a kick...

If I were to house-rule that non-Wait thrust attacks against non-stopped foes work like a "Stop Thrust" then "Holding a Foe at Bay" (MA106) should also apply....

The "win a Quick Contest of ST with you to get closer." would probably be some level of AP expenditure on both sides...

Although given Technical Grappling's "free" ST-4 resistances, it might make sense to charge 0 AP to either side if they took that -4 penalty, basically just letting their momentum/insertia (mass) do the work rather than applying effort to it.

Not that it matters here, but do you think that would be Lifting ST or Striking ST, and can you think of any skills or techniques which might sub for ST in that HAFAB contest?

In the case of a kick, if you thrust out to impact them at reach 1, I would say it would be 1 contest to close into the same hex and another contest to press past it into a rear hex. Past that though you've basically flung the kick aside so I don't think it would be of any more impeding unless a grapple was initiated.

In a way this almost seems like a non-gripping grapple of sorts.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:39 PM   #250
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Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
It might be location-specific too, DR normally doesn't apply to eyes so that's not a problem, but maybe some areas like the face/throat/abdomen might have less than tough places like the chest or limbs?
I can see an argument for varying the DR by location. The face and throat I can see. The abdomen is actually an interesting case, because most humans in good condition have a layer of non-vital tissue over it. Reducing it for folks with the skinny advantage is interesting. Add groin to your list, and parts of the limbs as well: armpits and wrists.

I'd never drop the DR though, just reduce it. Which then gets us into fraction HP, which is another kettle of fish I like but I find myself mostly alone there.

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Hard to remember where we left off... ugh I think the last action was August 5th

You know, even though you didn't take a Wait, it kind of seems like you ought to get the "Stop Thrust" bonus to the damage of your kick based on the speed I'm traveling toward you unless I explicitly said I was deceleratig/stopping (and thus spending AP to do so) at the end of my turn.

Otherwise it could be assumed I am maintaining my momentum and there shouldn't be any reason that wouldn't amplify your kick like if you interrupted me at full-speed with a kick...

If I were to house-rule that non-Wait thrust attacks against non-stopped foes work like a "Stop Thrust" then "Holding a Foe at Bay" (MA106) should also apply....

The "win a Quick Contest of ST with you to get closer." would probably be some level of AP expenditure on both sides...
That follows.

Quote:
Although given Technical Grappling's "free" ST-4 resistances, it might make sense to charge 0 AP to either side if they took that -4 penalty, basically just letting their momentum/insertia (mass) do the work rather than applying effort to it.
That's fine

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Not that it matters here, but do you think that would be Lifting ST or Striking ST, and can you think of any skills or techniques which might sub for ST in that HAFAB contest?
My gut says lifting. I think I'd allow wrestling as well, and perhaps most combat skills at a some penalty (-2?). I'd be hesitant to allow any skill at all unless some sort of strength normalization took place. Or possibly I'd recommend using trained ST.

Quote:
In the case of a kick, if you thrust out to impact them at reach 1, I would say it would be 1 contest to close into the same hex and another contest to press past it into a rear hex. Past that though you've basically flung the kick aside so I don't think it would be of any more impeding unless a grapple was initiated.

In a way this almost seems like a non-gripping grapple of sorts.
The second feels more like an evade. Now, a ST-based evade is an interesting option...
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