New Reality Seeds

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's very much incorrect. The reason why Nazi Germany got so much leeway at first was that they wanted Germany to be strong enough to be a buffer state against Russia.

I've not seen much evidence along those lines, where are you getting that?

I'm seeing multiple claims that the soviets were brought into the league of nations in 1934 as a counterweight to a militarizing Germany. I've seen a 1939 attempt at a treaty with Stalin.

[adm]

The West broke with using Hitler as a buffer when the Munich Agreement failed. Until then, they were more afraid of how quickly the Russian Red Army had retaken Belarus, Ukraine, eastern Poland etc. Once Hitler showed that he had no intention of honoring his agreements, he was considered to be the greater threat.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Beckenstein

Somehow I am sceptical about this.
One infantry weapon will not change the war. Unless the Germans

-have more tanks
-have more planes
-have more trucks
-have more men
-have more of everything, esp. fuel

than the alllies,esp. the Soviets and - last but not least -

-are lead by Hitler

they will loose the war.

Lets remember, the Nazis didn't just lose in the end, they threw away the victories of 1939 and 1940. There was a point there were they had won, they had the victory and if they had cut the peoples of Europe in for a share of the pie they could have kept it! What the ultimate outcome would be isn't the point. Making the Nazis seem even more overwhelming than in our world, and pragmatically vastly harder to dig out, is the point.

The idea is a scarier less predictable WWII with extra threats and villains.

[Astromancer]

Try this idea. It's 1967. Someone is going throughout America and Europe killing people with Emerald Green Arrows! The police see little or no pattern to the deaths, the Icops can see the pattern. Someone is killing the key figures in American and European Movement Conservatism. But the key figures of the 2010 to 2030 period.

Meanwhile, a tall powerfully build man with blonde hair and a forked beard, once handsome, how brutally disfigured with scars, calling himself "Oliver Queen" was seen near the killing of a Brooklyn real-estate man's teenage son.



Whether or not the PCs are fighting the real Green Arrow, and which version, I leave to the GM. But fighting a superhero gone mad in 1967 should make a fun campaign.

[David Johnston2]

One idea I had was an alternate Voodoo timeline where the Royalist Lodge teamed up with the Voodoo guys to win the American Civil War, only for it to end up with the Voodoo guys taking them down afterward and backing a slave revolt that turned the Confederacy into a setting where black people were the ruling class.

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this idea. It's 1967. Someone is going throughout America and Europe killing people with Emerald Green Arrows! The police see little or no pattern to the deaths, the Icops can see the pattern. Someone is killing the key figures in American and European Movement Conservatism. But the key figures of the 2010 to 2030 period.

Meanwhile, a tall powerfully build man with blonde hair and a forked beard, once handsome, how brutally disfigured with scars, calling himself "Oliver Queen" was seen near the killing of a Brooklyn real-estate man's teenage son.

Whether or not the PCs are fighting the real Green Arrow, and which version, I leave to the GM. But fighting a superhero gone mad in 1967 should make a fun campaign.

Ha! What's Roleplaying for if not the occasional wish-fulfilment?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Ha! What's Roleplaying for if not the occasional wish-fulfilment?

You can fill your wishes as you please. Still, the idea of the fallen/warped superhero killing a future that hasn't happened yet, makes a good action campaign. Picture Karl May's hero Shatterhand hunting future Nazis during the Kaiserreich. Pick you hero and your group to get waxed.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

It's a fun campaign idea, and one that a lot of authors have used successful as a dramatic background for story-telling. That said, I seriously doubt any effort on the part of Germany to create a Fifth Column in the Southern states would've really amounted to much, even in the scenario you discuss.

Hitler lacked the force projection to push into the British Isles. There's no way he could accomplish much in North America. The primary focus of German efforts were always to the east and, compared to the Russian Front, any North American efforts would barely rate as a sideshow.

I don't think Hitler would approve even minimal investments, there.

Getting the Nazis to support Southern secession would be hard, either traditionally on their own world, or cross-temporally on another world.


What if The South had successfully seceded, only to be reconquered later? It would take some doing, but what if the Confederacy allied with Imperial Germany (the opposite of what happened on Dixie), and both were losers in WWI? Britain and France grew tired of supporting a slave state in the late nineteenth century, while Bismarck extended the hand of friendship, bringing the USA into the Anglo-French alliance. A much more brutal WWI ensues on two continents.

Advance a few decades, and while Nazi Germany has 'risen from the ashes', the South still boils under Northern rule, with blacks as the new upper class there. Hitler/Nazi Germany would be much more connected to Confederate re-secessionists, and would need the South to rise up to cripple Anglo-French ally USA.


This is sort of like another parallel idea I had, a direct parallel of Dixie: same break from real history as on Dixie (Walker's Nicaragua), but USA pushes to retake all of the CSA at the end of the Great War.

Advance a few decades, and the South still boils, crippling America's aid to Kaiser's Germany against Fascist France, and Britain has no Confederate ally in the Pacific against Imperial Japan.

It would also open up to Infinity the idea of other worlds having their own parallels, not just always being a spin-off of Homeline. Maybe it's on a weird version of Quantum 6, only accessible through Dixie - the theoretical 'perpendicular quantums'.

[Kymage]

Originally Posted by fchase8

Getting the Nazis to support Southern secession would be hard, either traditionally on their own world, or cross-temporally on another world.


What if The South had successfully seceded, only to be reconquered later? It would take some doing, but what if the Confederacy allied with Imperial Germany (the opposite of what happened on Dixie), and both were losers in WWI? Britain and France grew tired of supporting a slave state in the late nineteenth century, while Bismarck extended the hand of friendship, bringing the USA into the Anglo-French alliance. A much more brutal WWI ensues on two continents.

Advance a few decades, and while Nazi Germany has 'risen from the ashes', the South still boils under Northern rule, with blacks as the new upper class there. Hitler/Nazi Germany would be much more connected to Confederate re-secessionists, and would need the South to rise up to cripple Anglo-French ally USA.


This is sort of like another parallel idea I had, a direct parallel of Dixie: same break from real history as on Dixie (Walker's Nicaragua), but USA pushes to retake all of the CSA at the end of the Great War.

Advance a few decades, and the South still boils, crippling America's aid to Kaiser's Germany against Fascist France, and Britain has no Confederate ally in the Pacific against Imperial Japan.

It would also open up to Infinity the idea of other worlds having their own parallels, not just always being a spin-off of Homeline. Maybe it's on a weird version of Quantum 6, only accessible through Dixie - the theoretical 'perpendicular quantums'.

This sounds like the TL-191 series from Turtledove. In that story the Confederacy sided with the British and French in WW1 while the United States sided with Imperial Germany. World War One went about the same with the Germans and USA winning. A second war took place in the 1940s that resulted in the USA finally conquering the Confederacy completely and deciding enough was enough.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

You can fill your wishes as you please. Still, the idea of the fallen/warped superhero killing a future that hasn't happened yet, makes a good action campaign. Picture Karl May's hero Shatterhand hunting future Nazis during the Kaiserreich. Pick you hero and your group to get waxed.

On either side. Opposing changes to history you feel like you should approve of is a pretty standard trope too.

It's odd how these things always seem to involve killing though. Occasionally you'll have somebody buy Hitler's early paintings or something, but it's rare.

Bending the lives of history's great villains into more positive channels may not be a whole lot harder than killing them, and makes the morality even more ambiguous. Given the state of pre-modern medicine, just about *everybody* in history, good or evil, has a sibling, parent, spouse, close friend or the like die early on them who could well have knocked their entire life into a different trajectory. How much can a time traveler bend history with a couple dozen vaccines and a bottle of penicillin?