Density increase in GURPS?

[Bathawk]

Just a little surprised that as near as I can tell, no form of density increase is available in 4th edition

for instance...is knockback resistance of some type something that's "buyable"?

should increased weight be considered a feature like size modifier? (niether positive or negative) what about if it's switchable?

how do you create the 3rd edition "density increase" power? increasing DR, weight, but also possibly harming the target as it collapses under it's own weight?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Just a little surprised that as near as I can tell, no form of density increase is available in 4th edition

for instance...is knockback resistance of some type something that's "buyable"?

should increased weight be considered a feature like size modifier? (niether positive or negative) what about if it's switchable?

how do you create the 3rd edition "density increase" power? increasing DR, weight, but also possibly harming the target as it collapses under it's own weight?

Well, there's beneficial density increase, which usually increases your strength as well, and density increase used as an attack.

For the former, since knockback is actually resisted by ST, I'd simply make it Extra ST (including HP for sure), most likely Switchable and with some Costs FP and a Nuisance Effect (increases weight as cube of HP increase, may break through floors, sink in water, etc.). Doubling your ST/HP would equate to 8x density. Add in some DR with Tough Skin (but not I think only vs. Crushing), only when Extra ST is switched on, if you wish.

The latter sounds like a natural effect of Control Density or Control Weight, with potentially damaging effects as per Control Gravity.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Well, there's beneficial density increase, which usually increases your strength as well, and density increase used as an attack.

For the former, since knockback is actually resisted by ST, I'd simply make it Extra ST (including HP for sure), most likely Switchable and with some Costs FP and a Nuisance Effect (increases weight as cube of HP increase, may break through floors, sink in water, etc.). Doubling your ST/HP would equate to 8x density. Add in some DR with Tough Skin (but not I think only vs. Crushing), only when Extra ST is switched on, if you wish.

The latter sounds like a natural effect of Control Density or Control Weight, with potentially damaging effects as per Control Gravity.

Good stuff. I'd just add that Growth ought to be a good model for DI as it is in Champions/Hero. Figure out the equivalent SM (based on mass), and buy (at least) the minimum ST necessary to support that size, with extras added as per v's suggestion above. Since actual SM isn't changing, you won't get many of the sfx associated with Growth, nor should you qualify for the ST/HP discount.

[vicky_molokh]

Increased density is not exactly useful in gamemech terms in 4e: knockback is resisted with ST, slams and collisions and falling damage are figured based on HP, and wrestling is a function of ST. The only good think one gets from extra weight (due to increasing density while maintaining volume) is when enemies want to carry it away on their backs, or do one of the rare pick-up-and-drop Techniques from MA. More often, allies need to carry around their wounded, so it's more a nuisance than a power.

[knarf]

Well, what do you want to do with density manipulation? If you want to be resistant to knockback, buy up ST. Wanna knock somebody else down, buy up ST. If you want to manipulate the density of others, purchase Afflictions to give them Skinny and Fat disadvantages.

[Useless Son]

increased density is translated from 3rd ed to 4th ed by buying extra HP, as Molokh explained, and DR with the crushing damage only limitation. Also, you need to figure a disadvantage or limitation to represent difficulty swimming.

that's documented somewhere, in a PDF that explains the differences between 3rd and 4th. it also has recommendations and hints for carrying abilities, like ID, over.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Useless Son

that's documented somewhere, in a PDF that explains the differences between 3rd and 4th. it also has recommendations and hints for carrying abilities, like ID, over.

Shaka-Khan!

[blacksmith]

St with only to resist knockback might be apropriate. it should be -80% limitation.

Also a nuisance effect of weighing a lot should be fine too for some of the not as limited effects. Shouldn't be more than -5% though.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

St with only to resist knockback might be apropriate. it should be -80% limitation.

Also a nuisance effect of weighing a lot should be fine too for some of the not as limited effects. Shouldn't be more than -5% though.

For knockback I'd say:

Perk: Knockback resistant. You get +1 to resist knockback. This perk can be bought in levels.

or...

Resistant (Uncommon) Knockback.


Being knockback resistant without being extra durable is rarely that much of an advantage...

[PK]

Resistant is the way to go, I agree. But IMO, Knockback should be Common -- that makes Immunity to Knockback a 15-point advantage, which sounds right to me. Until recently, I've been saying that the +3 [5] and +8 [7] levels should just add to your ST instead of HT, but I'm starting to change my mind. I still think that Resistant to Knockback is the easiest way to model it, but I may start tweaking it so that it's *3 and *8 to your ST, instead. That seems more fair, for the price.

Also note that the following special enhancement for Affliction is based loosely on the value of Disadvantage (Very Fat or Increased Life Support (Massive)):

Weight: The subject's weight increases dramatically. This is basically a nuisance -- they count as more encumbrance if carried, may crash through weak floors, etc. -- but can be advantageous at times. +5% for 3x weight, +10% for 10x weight, +15% for 30x weight, +20% for 100x weight, and so on. GMs should usually require a commiserate increase in HP and either an increase or reduction in ST. (The reduction simulates someone's own body weight "counting as encumbrance".)