Crusader's Guilt

[Acolyte]

(not sure how to tag this one, sorry)

I had a thought the other day. This is as usual a scary and rare occurrence, but I'm telling you anyway. Laurence is currently the Commander of God's Armies, and the books have a lot of examples of him directing not only the overall War but also specifically other Superiors' Servitors (two examples that come to mind are his obsession with Bright Lilim [that came out wrong] and the angel from the No Dinero adventure whose job it was to prevent the local angels of Protection and such from actually fighting demons).

Previously, Uriel was the Commander of God's Armies, and it stands to rights that he did similar things. And since Uriel was old and respected and got along with the other martial AAs (something Laurence doesn't always manage), I'd imagine this management went much more smoothly (Uriel calls up Michael and says "This Tether in Cairo needs to be destroyed" and Michael says "I'm assigning twenty Malakim as we speak").

So it stands to rights that when Uriel decided it was part of his Word's service, and his service to God, that all ethereals be permanently slain, his Servitors that fanned out over the Earth and into the Marches in genocide were accompanied by at least angels of War, Wind, Judgment, and Protection-if-it-was-around-then-as-I-can't-remember-the-date-Zadkiel-went-AA. Stone, Animals, and Fire all supported Uriel, but all had or were rumored to have connections to the ethereals and so their inclusion would be questionable but possible. Lightning isn't the most martial but wouldn't have had a problem helping out, and Children would certainly have joined in against some of the more obviously evil ethereals while not assisting in the killing of the kid-friendly ones. Trade, Destiny, Flowers, and Revelation would have joined in only under direct command (and in support roles mostly), and Dreams vigorously opposed the whole affair.

My point is that even though there aren't many angels of Purity left (between the casualties of the Crusades, the creation of the Tsyadim, and the conversion of many of them into angels of the Sword), and many angels of the Sword might have a background that includes action in the Purity Crusade, they certainly aren't the only ones. With the recall of Uriel and the defection of many ethereals to Beleth, the Heavenly feeling overall (if measured by one of Nybbas' Vox Populi or whatever those were called) seems to be that the Crusade was a bad move and did a lot of bad stuff. Which means there's a lot of angels serving other Words grappling with guilt about their behavior during the Crusades. In fact, regardless of whether he saw actual combat during that time, any angel who lived then should be touched, marked, by the events of Uriel's Crusade.

To draw a corollary, consider the lasting emotional scar in the American subconsciousness regarding the Vietnam War. Anyone familiar with US pop culture from that time to the present doesn't need to have an explanation of the guilt and anger and passion the issue brings with it. It's fading now, to our detriment I believe, mostly because of the influx of young people brought up without a good grasp of it and the deaths of those who lived through it. But remember that angels don't just die of old age (and have a longer life expectancy than demons who are also technically immortal), and that new angels are much rarer than older ones.

Angels of Flowers might harbor guilt over not having done more to defend the ethereals or succor their wounds, angels of Dreams are still probably angry with the entire Seraphim Council for not stopping it sooner, angels of Stone might grieve old allies and the breakdown of the lines of community between angels and good ethereals, angels of War would complain over drinks about how the end result was a tactical loss for Heaven while trying not to think about the innocents they slaughtered on Uriel's command, and angels of the Sword who were ex-angels of Purity have to constantly grapple with the doubt that their former master might have been wrong.

My main point is that any PC or NPC who existed at that time should have been affected by, and is still probably affected by, the events of the Purity Crusade. "Where were you?" ask the Flowers pundits speaking at a protest around a monument in the Eternal City to those who died in the Crusade, "Where were you?"

[rknop]

I think a lot of angels would have Crusader's Guilt -- but I think there's still a very strong sentiment in Heaven that the Ethereals ought to stay the heck away from Earth. It's probably more divided than the US is about Vietnam. (You can still find some people who think that going into Vietnam was the right thing to do, and it was just our mismanagement, or our unwillingness to go all out, that was the real problem. However, I think they're a very small minority nowadays.)

[tHEhERETIC]

Originally Posted by rknop

I think a lot of angels would have Crusader's Guilt -- but I think there's still a very strong sentiment in Heaven that the Ethereals ought to stay the heck away from Earth. It's probably more divided than the US is about Vietnam. (You can still find some people who think that going into Vietnam was the right thing to do, and it was just our mismanagement, or our unwillingness to go all out, that was the real problem. However, I think they're a very small minority nowadays.)

And I'm thinking there are plenty of angels whose only guilt was that they didn't finish the job. Uriel may have been yanked up and out, but I imagine there are some of his old soldiers wondering why God would do such a thing. They might note the futility of destroying human dreams, but what's wrong with getting rid of their old animist baggage? The old gods had human frailties and yet got worshipped, and plenty of them were worshipped as a point of fear and appeasement. Such an angel might confidently hold the notion that a human being has a God-shaped hole in his heart, and that the survival of ethereal beings gives them a bad place to try to fill that hole, and get used...

...now how did that go and turn into an image of sex vs. love? God offers good and unselfish love; gods offer a cheap thrill that leaves you wanting more, and paying more to get it.

Gotta think like a Purity sometimes.

[Acolyte]

I think the issue there is that angels (at least, angels who aren't dissonant and in danger of Falling) aren't individuals as much as servants of the Symphony. The fact is, Uriel was recalled. God didn't say "bad dog", but he didn't say "you have my stamp of approval." It's telling that Laurence has enforced the "no ethereals in the Vale of Dreams or on Earth" rule, but hasn't attempted to continue the Crusade.

So even an Elohite of Purity (or formerly thereof) who reasons that humans have a need to worship and that the existence of ethereals is bad because it means that need isn't being met by God, the intended fulfillment of the need, and so the Purity Crusade was a good idea--well, all of that logic is stacked against the Truth that God ended the Crusade, and Heaven's marching orders are not to continue it.

Admittedly, there were a lot of Servitors of Purity who felt this way. They became the Tsaydim. But a strong feeling in that direction and unquestioning service of Heaven are at odds to each other.

[rknop]

I don't know -- the response *was* ambiguous-- God didn't say "good job", but nor did he say "this is naughty." You could potentially view Uriel's ascension as a promotion. Laurence's policy can easily be interpreted as "try to straddle the line so you don't go too far one way or the other in case you've misinterpreted". I.e., an uneasy compromise.

Angels aren't individualistic, but they also both recognize that the Symphony is multifaceted and has a lot of different aspects to it, *and* that God's Will is sometimes very hard to discern. That's why you have archangels hostile to each other.

I think it could be pushed either way depending on what an individual GM wants.

But, I definitely think you're right that there are going to be quite a number of angels suffering survivor's guilt.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by rknop

I don't know -- the response *was* ambiguous-- God didn't say "good job", but nor did he say "this is naughty." You could potentially view Uriel's ascension as a promotion. Laurence's policy can easily be interpreted as "try to straddle the line so you don't go too far one way or the other in case you've misinterpreted". I.e., an uneasy compromise.

In the parliamentary system of government, it's possible for a Member of Parliament to be appointed to the upper house (House of Lords in the UK, Senate in Canada). Technically, this is a promotion... but it kills that person's career.

I see the same thing having happened to Uriel. He's been called closer to God, where he can't interfere with the War any more.

[Doctor Palpatine]

Originally Posted by robkelk

In the parliamentary system of government, it's possible for a Member of Parliament to be appointed to the upper house (House of Lords in the UK, Senate in Canada). Technically, this is a promotion... but it kills that person's career.

I see the same thing having happened to Uriel. He's been called closer to God, where he can't interfere with the War any more.

Although this does raise the question of why God decided to act in this way. If Laurence's promotion was tied to a new non-intervention policy regrading ethereals, why did God not openly chastise Uriel for his persecutions rather than promote him sideways (or upwards)?

You could make the argument that it would be disasterous for Heaven's morale and a massive propaganda coup for Hell for the commander of the Host to have made such a terrible error if it had been publically recognised as such. From a political point of view, face was saved and the message was pretty clear to everybody anyway (although there's enough scope for GM's to jump on the massive ambiguities and exploit them how they wish).

Interestingly in the game that I'm currently playing in, the party have yet to hit the Purity Crusades (we're currently in Egypt circa 2500 BC). Thus far we've encountered a ton of ethereals (mostly native Gods) and their human soldiers and have had no problem with the majority of them, Set in particular being a God we can trust to remain if not an ally then at least a force opposing Hell. We're not going to enjoy the 8th century. We're going to loose a lot of friends to the Crusade.

[Acolyte]

I figure that propaganda thing is the reason there wasn't a direct no-no from Heaven. Maaaybe.

Sounds like an interesting game but...Set? Admittedly, Set's cult was later demonized, but I'd put him among the Egyptian Ethereals most likely to serve Hell, not Heaven.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

I figure that propaganda thing is the reason there wasn't a direct no-no from Heaven. Maaaybe.

It could also be the fact that, overzealous as Uriel was, he did accomplish a major goal of Heaven: the power of the major pantheons, already weakened by centuries of monotheistic movements, was basically shattered. Their Tethers are all but gone, their worship nearly dried up (aside from some modern pagan movements and the like), and the biggest players left are either "turtling up" (Asgard) or have worshippers who were already sending power to the Divine as well as themselves (the Hindu spirits). And while it hasn't completely cut the Ethereals off from Earth, it has made it necessary for them to be very, very stealthy about it.

There's a lot to abhor about the Purity Crusade, and I'm not holding it up as something pure and beautiful. But it was not a complete failure, either.