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Old 11-29-2022, 03:29 PM   #21
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Thieves

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
250-point bandits should create work for delvers as guards for merchants. This is not a request for a reveal.
They are very much "ambush outdoor thieves." In the two scenarios I used them two bandits and a knight destroyed two wizards, two knights, a druid, and a scout in about 4 turns. It was pretty brutal.
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Old 11-29-2022, 04:10 PM   #22
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They are very much "ambush outdoor thieves." In the two scenarios I used them two bandits and a knight destroyed two wizards, two knights, a druid, and a scout in about 4 turns. It was pretty brutal.
On the one hand, you've got my attention.

On the other hand, this is also the nature of GURPS combat, almost irrespective of what profession the ambushers are. A wizard and two swashbucklers, or three martial artists, or a druid and two scouts... any of these could potentially wipe out a party of six in 1-4 rounds in an ambush situation. (E.g. the wizard casts Invisibility and the Swashbucklers use Luck if necessary to enhance Stealth and virtually guarantee surprise, and then cut down three PCs each from behind on round 1.) Delvers are fragile when caught unawares.

On the gripping hand, you've definitely got me curious enough to buy the book when I see it, and if you feel like telling the story I'm sure I will enjoy it.
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Old 11-30-2022, 01:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Thieves

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On the one hand, you've got my attention.
Heh.

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
On the other hand, this is also the nature of GURPS combat, almost irrespective of what profession the ambushers are. A wizard and two swashbucklers, or three martial artists, or a druid and two scouts... any of these could potentially wipe out a party of six in 1-4 rounds in an ambush situation. (E.g. the wizard casts Invisibility and the Swashbucklers use Luck if necessary to enhance Stealth and virtually guarantee surprise, and then cut down three PCs each from behind on round 1.) Delvers are fragile when caught unawares.
This is true, but bandits and cutthroats do it better. The damage potential on surprise attacks with the right power-ups proved to be pretty incredible.

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On the gripping hand, you've definitely got me curious enough to buy the book when I see it, and if you feel like telling the story I'm sure I will enjoy it.
Oh, it'll probably make it into the designer's notes on my blog along with anything that didn't make it in since Pyramid Designer's Notes are kind of a thing of the past it seems.
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Old 11-30-2022, 06:43 AM   #24
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This is true, but bandits and cutthroats do it better. The damage potential on surprise attacks with the right power-ups proved to be pretty incredible.
You've got my attention. (Even though rationally I know that killing PCs with NPC bandits and cutthroats in an ambush is not something I should do or will do, I'm still curious. If the book happens to have scenario rules that make the recon/ambush/counter-ambush aspect of the game easier to run in a fun way, so that I _can_ use bandit ambushes, even better.)

What's the release date on the book?
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: Thieves

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You've got my attention. (Even though rationally I know that killing PCs with NPC bandits and cutthroats in an ambush is not something I should do or will do, I'm still curious. If the book happens to have scenario rules that make the recon/ambush/counter-ambush aspect of the game easier to run in a fun way, so that I _can_ use bandit ambushes, even better.)
It does not. I considered putting such rules in and I DID write them, but I excised them in the first draft. The standard rules should be fine even though they are a bit binary.

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What's the release date on the book?
No idea. The editorial queue is quite stuck at the moment: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves (Christopher R. Rice), GURPS Fantasy Folk: Goblins and Hobgoblins (Phil Masters), GURPS Fantasy Folk: Kobolds (Phil Masters), GURPS Fantasy Folk: Winged Folk (Anders Starmark), GURPS Template Toolkit: Spirits (Rory Fansler). There is three people to clear all that and they still got other things to do.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:53 AM   #26
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I'm curious about improvements to Perfect Balance. My adult group is in a distinct minority in that many of them love that disadvantage even though I've told them that the community at large finds it overpriced.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:05 AM   #27
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I'm curious about improvements to Perfect Balance. My adult group is in a distinct minority in that many of them love that disadvantage even though I've told them that the community at large finds it overpriced.
It's in the same vein as how Barbarians pokes at Outdoorsman to make it more practical for barbs to work within their niches.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:22 PM   #28
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It does not. I considered putting such rules in and I DID write them, but I excised them in the first draft. The standard rules should be fine even though they are a bit binary.
I don't think the standard rules are capable of doing what's needed to make it fun and interesting for an adventure (like, I dunno, You All Meet At An Inn) to contain an ambush of the sort you describe, where the players get annihilated if caught unaware.

If you take You All Meet At An Inn and e.g. turn three of the people at the inn into highwaymen (two scouts and a wizard) who set up camp above the well, turn invisible (via Invisibility-20), and wait for the players to emerge so they can murder them and take their stuff, it's certainly possible for the players to emerge victorious via sufficient paranoia (e.g. Keen Hearing on the druid + Beast Possession on an owl created via Create Animal, before emerging from the well, followed by a counter-ambush). But that level of paranoia isn't necessarily fun for players or GMs, and in the spirit of the observation that designing what the characters do is separate and distinct from designing how the players do it...

...in that spirit, if you have anything to share about how you made your six players enjoy getting killed by an ambush of two bandits and a knight, I am all ears.

So far the best idea I have myself is a variation on a theme I've used before: embrace troupe play, and run a scenario where each player is running a character in at least two cooperating parties (A Team and B Team and possibly C Team) so that if A Team gets wiped out by an ambush, B Team still has a chance of completing their own objective and maybe picking up A's objective as well. Maybe there are better ideas though.

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Old 11-30-2022, 12:48 PM   #29
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Oh, they were the ones doing the ambushing. I probably should have run it the other way around too, but there just wasn't enough time.

I am thinking about making an expanded system for sneaking though. Something akin to the chase rules from Action 2. That could be a lot of fun.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:50 PM   #30
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Oh, they were the ones doing the ambushing. I probably should have run it the other way around too, but there just wasn't enough time.
Ohhhh. From the context (where John Dallman points out that high-point bandits create work for PCs as guards) I misunderstood the scenario.

I'm still interested in the book, but I understand now why you don't feel additional rules are necessary.
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