Where do Geases come from?

[Jason]

Just trying to straighten this out...

Lilim
Lilim can impose a Geas hook if they detect a Need with their resonance and then fulfill that Need for someone. They can then call in a Geas based on that hook, in person. They can also impose a Geas on themselves at will.

Lilith
So far as I can tell, Lilith has the same Geas-imposing powers as Lilim, but can also trade Geases and even Geas hooks.

Superiors (?)
The Game Master's Guide says that Superiors have access to the resonances of every Choir or Band, regardless of their original Choir or Band. I'm not sure if that includes Archangels (seeing as how Brights have an odd sort of lineage), but is it safe to assume that Princes can impose Geases the same way Lilim can?

Converting Dissonance to Discord (?)
Technically, a Geas is an ethereal Discord. I noticed that in Night Music, Wrenchial (a demon of Fire) owes Furfur a Geas for bailing him out of some situations that "burned" him, causing him dissonance. Since no Lilim are mentioned in the transaction, I'm assuming that the Geas came from Wrenchial converting his own Dissonance to a Geas (either willingly, or that's just what Discord he randomly ended up with), but I'm open to other interpretations.

Ethereals/Domains (?)
The actual term "geas" comes from Irish and Welsh mythology. It seems to be something that some are born with, and sometimes gets imposed by others, like a curse. Geases are also very similar to the kinds of bindings and bargains that come up a lot in faerie-inspired myths and stories, such as how you're not supposed to accept food or gifts when visiting faerie lands. It seems weird to me that only demons would have access to this power, as belief and tradition are where powers come from in the Marches, but I don't see any precedent for this among the Affinities in the Ethereal Player's Guide.

My temporary solution to this one, anyway, was to say that Geases exist as something like an "intrusive domain attunement" (as described in the EPG) in certain domains of the Marches: Anybody can trade Geases willingly in bartering, and certain actions (like giving food to a mortal) imply an automatic Geas. When my players visited a Faerie Marketplace to pick up artifacts they needed for their quest, for instance, I thought it would be a little too easy to let them just swap Essence, so I let them take Geases (with each level of Geas equaling 3 character points that would be immediately applied to the artifacts).

Anything I missed, or any other thoughts or clarifications?

[Archangel Beth]

I generally presume that Superiors of both sides can impose a Geas if they wish, though the exact fiddly Sympthonic "mechanics" may be different ways of arriving at the same result as the Geases Lilith (and Lilim) make. As usual with Discord, the Servitor would have to either be totally within the Superior's power, willing, or have its Heart within the Superior's grasp/power.


I don't generally like the dissonance-to-Discord mechanic for Geases. It's all... wonky. I'd have just presumed that a Lilim was involved and wandered off again, myself, but if one converts dissonance-to-Discord in the presence of someone else, and turns it into an Owed Geas... Hm. Would that be abusive? It would be even more permanent than most Discord, because stripping Geases is dangerous, and that might outweigh that the Discord wouldn't necessarily start affecting the celestial immediately.

The trick would be to make this not abusable by PC to go, "Oh, I convert to a Geas, and I'm next to Other PC, who will dismiss the Geas or Geas me to do something trivial, and problem gone!"

...Unless one can come up with a way for PCs to not go, "Random Discord Table says Geas? And the only person I conceivably owe something to is this other PC? SCORE!", I'd be inclined to say a Lilim was somehow involved in that Night Music geas.


I wouldn't be fazed to have ethereals of certain kinds having a Geasing ability, though again, I'd probably handwave that they got the power from a subtly different way. On the other hand, maybe Lilith got the Geasing ability from some ethereal in the first place (since she was kicking around for some time before Lucifer decided he needed a human around the place), and they're really exactly the same... Or maybe Lilith made Princess and hunted down and destroyed every ethereal bearing the Geas-ability, and the rest are in deep hiding.

Or Uriel did, since I'm sure Lilith annoyed him. Or Uriel was hunting ethereals in general and Lilith decided to reduce the Geas-competition under cover of the Purity Crusade... (Or, for machinations, Lilith was behind the Purity Crusade, to cover her assassination of the competition!)

Oh, as you chose, it might be a Domain feature, which is actually pretty darn cool.

That help any?

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I don't generally like the dissonance-to-Discord mechanic for Geases. It's all... wonky. I'd have just presumed that a Lilim was involved and wandered off again, myself ...

Or another way to interpret it, if the player is willing: the PC, not wanting to admit dissonance to their official Superior, invoked Lilith and asked if she could take care of the matter. And of course, she did ... for a Geas ... which she has either kept or traded off to someone of the GM's choosing.

[Jason]

All excellent thoughts, thanks! I'm personally more comfortable with the idea of trading dissonance directly into a Geas than with the idea of bugging Lilith for such matters, but admittedly, it only makes sense to use that if:

a) You trust your players to do this responsibly;
b) it comes up on a random Discord roll;
c) your players don't mind you picking this when thematically appropriate;
d) Or you let your players choose Geas as a Discord, but the GM gets to choose who it's owed to...

I actually rather like the idea that Fire demons have a habit of spontaneously manifesting Geases toward anyone who helps get them out of their own jams.

[JCD]

Well, when a goose and a gander love each other and have a six pack handy...

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Jason

d) Or you let your players choose Geas as a Discord, but the GM gets to choose who it's owed to...

I actually rather like the idea that Fire demons have a habit of spontaneously manifesting Geases toward anyone who helps get them out of their own jams.

Or E) All of the above! O:D

But having Geases manifest occasionally, owed to someone who helped mend what you got the dissonance for, would be thematically kinda cool. It would also hint that the Lilim mindset is, indeed supported Symphonically...

Do not mention this to Lilimabetic players. >_>

(It still runs the risk of angelic groups going, "I rolled Geas? Hooray! Joeiah here is the one who helped me, so obviously..." But the GM can always go "ha, ha, ha, no.")

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Or E) All of the above! O:D

But having Geases manifest occasionally, owed to someone who helped mend what you got the dissonance for, would be thematically kinda cool. It would also hint that the Lilim mindset is, indeed supported Symphonically...

Do not mention this to Lilimabetic players. >_>

(It still runs the risk of angelic groups going, "I rolled Geas? Hooray! Joeiah here is the one who helped me, so obviously..." But the GM can always go "ha, ha, ha, no.")

For groups of angelic PCs, I could see suddenly finding themselves owing a Geas to any humans they inadvertently failed to help (or directly screwed over) in the process of earning their dissonance.

It will take me some time, but I WILL come up with a plausible in-game reason why it should be assumed that a "naturally occurring" Geas will only be owed to someone selfish enough to make good use of it...

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Jason

For groups of angelic PCs, I could see suddenly finding themselves owing a Geas to any humans they inadvertently failed to help (or directly screwed over) in the process of earning their dissonance.

It will take me some time, but I WILL come up with a plausible in-game reason why it should be assumed that a "naturally occurring" Geas will only be owed to someone selfish enough to make good use of it...

Because the truly selfless wouldn't claim it in the first place? If there's no real desire to ask repayment for a favor, I can see where the harmonies wouldn't be quite right.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Because the truly selfless wouldn't claim it in the first place? If there's no real desire to ask repayment for a favor, I can see where the harmonies wouldn't be quite right.

Right, basically. Gives a loophole to suggest that angelic PCs wouldn't be getting Geases for helping each other out (working under the assumption they are inherently selfless), but potentially of leaves you in a pickle if somebody's playing a Soldier or something. I guess you could also say it wouldn't manifest in anyone disinclined to call it in, which would cover "allies" more generally (except among potentially connivers and backstabbers).

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Jason

It will take me some time, but I WILL come up with a plausible in-game reason why it should be assumed that a "naturally occurring" Geas will only be owed to someone selfish enough to make good use of it...

You're evil. I like you. (Also, Symphony imposing Debt to balance scales is, indeed, quite a nice and tidy little premise to work from...)