[IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Not saying that this makes any alternate history good or bad. Just that different criteria apply.

I wasn't trying to imply that an unlikely chain of events make for a bad read or a bad campaign. Even highly unlikely ones can be fun. Heck, they can even be used for historical analysis. One of my professors suggested that even miracle alternatives like Napoleon getting the nuclear bomb could be used to compare international systems.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

IIRC the Spencer passed all US Army testing in 1857. The War department grogs came up with the possibility soldiers with repeating rifles wuld waste ammo as the excuse to stay with muskets. The Henry got the go ahead because Lincoln personally test fired it and told the Army to get them.

After one campaign there would have been no need for ammo.

[Verjigorm]

The 10th of June, 1190, Emperor Frederick Barbarossa is encamped on the shores of the mighty Saleph river in Turkey. His advance scouts have secured the river crossing, and his well-watered army crosses over the river, with the emperor surviving, rather than drowning to death as in history. The vast german army marches into Northern Syria, and the French and English kings are overawed by it's majesty, and also the authority of the 68 year old emperor.

The massive Crusader army, unified by the Authority of the emperor marches on Jersalem, and Saladin is powerless to stop him. The Holy City falls, and Outremer is given an extended lease on life. Richard I of england, overawed by the beauty of the land, is appointed Holy Protector of the Sepulchur by Frederick, and the emperor returns home.

It's a nice place to start... :)

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Problem with that assumption set is that so much of that is true elsewhere in Europe. Colonial genocide? The Belgians in the Congo. That didn't lead to European genocide.

Sorry if I didn't keep up with this interesting thread but... I just wanted to say that I agree with you, in the above and in several of your following comments.

I can see a world where the dominant culture is German and those having a lingering bad reputation for concentration camps are... the British. The Boer War and all of that. Never mind that those camps, bad as they were, weren't what comes to our minds today when we hear or read those two words.

The predominant German state and culture will be racist, jingoistic, and colonialist. That's not unlike most other states and cultures, be they steampunk or from our own past around the 1890s.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Michele

The predominant German state and culture will be racist, jingoistic, and colonialist. That's not unlike most other states and cultures, be they steampunk or from our own past around the 1890s.

Actully the will depend what time equivalent you look at. In my proposed trade/tech focus Germany becomes a trade hub which me common close associations with other cultures which if look at port town completed to rural centers history has shown such association goes a long way in diminishing such tenacities. Sure like your history the improvements are probable not without insistence, but I would not exect such triats would be any stronger in modern equivalent of that time line than they are in how people precision the US. prideful and willing to use the economic and technological edge to make international issues more favorable to their own interests.

[sn0wball]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I would guess a straight-pull bolt action, but 1866 is (AFAIK) a very early alternate history appearance.

Would you care to elaborate ? What would be a real-life counterpart ? And what would that mean in terms of ROF or other game terms ?

[sn0wball]

An ultimately successful German revolution of 1848 leads to the Prussian king Friedrich Wilhelm IV accepting the title of German Kaiser from the hands of the Frankfurt parliament. Germany (excluding Austria) is turned into a constitutional, elective monarchy. He is a weak Kaiser, leaving the day to day governmental affairs in the hands of a row of rather successful chancellors. The wars of 1866 and 1870 are avoided. No tradition of Prussian military prowess is formed. Relations with Imperial Austria are usually bad, which also avoids WWI as we knew it. With the one most progressive constitutions regarding civil rights and liberties, Germany takes the European lead in science, technology and economy.

Not all is well, though. Germany has aspirations to unite the whole area of the medieval Reich. Sooner or later there will be a conflict with relatively backwards Austria. The same could be true for a conflict with France over the Alsace.

[nondescript handle]

Originally Posted by sn0wball

[...] What would be a real-life counterpart ? [...]

Famous Geradezugrepetierer are the Austrian Steyr-Mannlicher Model 1895 and the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin series (1889-1957).

I think the first issued straight pull rifle was the Steyr-Mannlicher Model 1885.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Dr Archeville

Starting some work on a GURPS Infinite Worlds/Supers game, where PCs will visit an assortment of alternate worlds.

I want to do one that's German-centric, but not Nazi-centric. A world that built upon the cultural and intellectual advances of the country, and which came to an alpha position in the world b/c it really is that good, not b/c some goose-steppers forced it on others. Well, maybe no more forcefully than America's done as it has risen to prominence on the world stage.

One shot might be to split off early. Try this, when South German townsmen ask Charles V to settle in Argentina, the nobles of Castle don't hear about it until it's a done deal. In our history the Castilians saw the whole of the new world as exclusively Castilian property. In this world, German towns are planted in Argentina before even the Roanoke settlement.

Silberland flourishes. Durring the Thirty-Years war vast numbers of Germans flee to Silberland. The different livestyles of the Germans leads them to have larger families and more ecconomic growth than the Spanish and their strong preference for temperate farmlands means they have less of a problem with disease. Thus their population growth is very high. Durring the Napoleanic period they also break free of Spain and become independent.

Durring the 19th century, Silberland agressively recruites scholars from Germany to staff their Universities. Thus creating a Germanic "USA" in the South Atlantic. Silberland could be neutral in WWI and fiercely anti-fascist in WWII. Have them combine the reasources of Argentina, Paraguay, Uraguay, Bolivia, and Chile, with a sophistocated Social Democratic government and a first rate educational system.

Such a nation would be very powerful and influential.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by sn0wball

An ultimately successful German revolution of 1848 leads to the Prussian king Friedrich Wilhelm IV accepting the title of German Kaiser from the hands of the Frankfurt parliament.

This is definitely a good start. I'm a little fuzzy on why he would do this: in our timeline, he thought they would cave to him and, in the end, he was right. A better showing somewhere, or an extra revolt or two, especially in the Rhineland.