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Old 02-22-2018, 10:42 AM   #31
Gollum
 
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

I like to compare Computer Operation to Driving. Nowadays, most of us have a driving license. We have no problem to take our car to commute work or to drive to the next supermarket ... But what happens when something surprising occurs? A pedestrian suddenly crosses the street where he was not supposed to do it, a road hog cut off the road or even goes through a red light ... This is where having the Driving skill (if only at amateur level) can make a difference. For those who don't, it often end with a crash.

It's exactly the same think with Computer Operation. As long as once only uses the computer programs he knows well, there is no problem. But, slowly, his computer becomes more and more slow, his programs work less and less efficiently and more and more publicity does appear on his computer screen ... His computer accumulated too many cookies, malwares, spywares (sometimes even viruses) and his hard disk is full and fragmented. He doesn't know what to do. Here, a computer user will use a good antivirus, antimalware, defragmentation and cleaning soft to solve all those problems. He will even use them regularly to scan his computer and won't forgot the updates to avoid them before they occur.

And, to come back to the main discussion of that thread, I think that if using a computer to run a usual soft like a mail box or a game is easy for everyone, using it to improve his efficiency with another skill like Research, Astronomy or Engineering surely deserves a roll against Computer Operation.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #32
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Not quite. It just means those who grew up with computers probably have at least one point invested in the skill and are using programs that are 'user friendly' and thus facilitate a bonus to their usage.

However, a lot of computer usage (installing programs, uninstalling programs, troubleshooting programs, etc) are still very much skill uses that are difficult.
According to the description in Characters that is not what Computer Operation does anyway. It's to "run a program"! There is nothing about maintaining a computer, which I agree is a bit more of a skill than what is described under Computer Operation.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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The vast majority of academic journals are going to have content accessible only through the internet for most university libraries (JSTOR possesses the contents of 2400 journals). If you want to do serious academic research, you need to have access to a service similar to JSTOR, which means using the internet from a university library.
I partially agree. I believe this is true if you're doing Research on the level of a professor/expert in a given field gathering information that would be useful to other professors/experts in the same field; in that case, you'd want to have access to those journals.

What I did, however, was do research for news articles for the general public, and research for a text book to be made for undergraduate students. Near the turn of the 20th Century, I was given access to such a service, but found it a waste of time for my purposes. Quite honestly, I couldn't understand half of what I read in those journals anyway. In GURPS terms, my skill level in the fields wasn't high enough.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Bengt View Post
According to the description in Characters that is not what Computer Operation does anyway. It's to "run a program"! .
Installing and uninstalling are necessary components to running a program as well as doing basic troubleshooting.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
I like to compare Computer Operation to Driving....
Agreed; I don't have my players roll on routine use for either one or for routine use of other skills. I'm pretty decent on a computer, but if I had to roll on Computer Operation every time I tried to use a computer, I'd be in trouble.

And if we all had to roll on Driving skill every time we went to work, the store, the movies, and then again coming home, many of us would have a crash two or three times a week instead of filing a claim for a collision about once every 17.9 years.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:57 PM   #36
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Installing and uninstalling are necessary components to running a program as well as doing basic troubleshooting.
I think that varies a great deal with the Tech Level, and even within a TL. Through most of all TL 7 (through some time in the 1970s or so), you essentially had to program a computer before you could even use it.

That hadn't completely changed by TL 8. I remember installing The Sims took me hours. But with The Sims 4, I clicked a button and it downloaded for me.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Installing and uninstalling are necessary components to running a program as well as doing basic troubleshooting.
For TL7, that's true, but for TL8 and above, I disagree. Most, modern, software packages will automatically pop up an installation window and all you have to do is click next until finish shows up and it continues. Maybe you'll have to enter an authorization code, but most of the time that's already entered for you. Like EULA, most people don't read or understand the options they're given.

Most of my co-workers, who work in a computer-heavy industry, don't know how to force a scan disk of their computers. They don't know how to uninstall unneeded programs. Heck, most of them don't know the difference between "cache" and "cookies" and use the terms interchangeably. They're using the Computer Operation/TL8 skill at default. With the +4 for routine operation, they're rolling at IQ level, so they can wiggle their way through about half of the issues they see. For the other half they're calling me or the help(less) desk for assistance.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:39 PM   #38
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Installing and uninstalling are necessary components to running a program as well as doing basic troubleshooting.
I certainly wouldn't assume that the phrase "run a program" includes those other steps. Most computer users in corporate environments aren't even able to install programs since they lack administrator rights, and they surely "run programs". The same is true for anyone using a library computer to do research.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
For TL7, that's true, but for TL8 and above, I disagree. Most, modern, software packages will automatically pop up an installation window and all you have to do is click next until finish shows up and it continues. Maybe you'll have to enter an authorization code, but most of the time that's already entered for you. Like EULA, most people don't read or understand the options they're given.

Most of my co-workers, who work in a computer-heavy industry, don't know how to force a scan disk of their computers. They don't know how to uninstall unneeded programs. Heck, most of them don't know the difference between "cache" and "cookies" and use the terms interchangeably. They're using the Computer Operation/TL8 skill at default. With the +4 for routine operation, they're rolling at IQ level, so they can wiggle their way through about half of the issues they see. For the other half they're calling me or the help(less) desk for assistance.
Yes, the computer operation rolls get easier and easier until finally there's no need for a roll. But my point was those are inclined in the general description of Computer Operation...even though more and more people are using computers without any Operation skill at all and are just phoning Support to use someone else's Operation skill.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:33 PM   #40
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

I think that Computer Operation should be considered the skill to use a computer at the administrative level. When you are talking about database management, you are talking about Computer Operation. When you are talking about ordering a table or a view from an SQL program, or running a regression on SPSS or R, you are talking about Computer Operation. By late-TL8, Computer Operation is a specialized skill because making a mistake can cause millions of dollars of data to be lost (which is why SQL administrator make damn sure that the suits cannot access the database directly). Everything else is just normal computer use for skills in TL8.
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