Metric? Keep or change?

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

Cite? I can't see where anyone argued that.

<blink>

Read the last half dozen posts from Anthony. #45, 47, 52 and 55 particularly.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Ah, so that's the REAL reason. Got it.

TFT, the non-RPG battle game, used unspecified hexes as a measure of distance, and unspecified turns as a measure of time.

TFT-ITL, the RPG, was originally metric. You're still here, so I presume you didn't have a problem with it then.

I don't think TFT, the non-RPG battle game, needs to specify its hexes and turns any more than it ever did. I wouldn't want TFT-ITL to suddenly go US measurements any more than I would want GURPS to suddenly go fully metric. GURPS 4e includes "good enough" metric conversions.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

I wouldn't want TFT-ITL to suddenly go US measurements any more than I would want GURPS to suddenly go fully metric.

Why not?

Do you think many folks are TFT fans because it used the metric system?

[tbeard1999]

A point someone else brought out is that using a measurement system that has only existed since the mid-19th century destroys a fantasy game's verisimilitude (in addition to being more unfamiliar to most TFT players).

I think that's a fair point. Traveller, a sci-fi game, uses the metric system and I don't object to it. It seems more "science fictiony" or something. That said, it's much more intuitive to state that a sword is 0.8 meters long rather than 800 millimeters. Or that a submachinegun weights 2.5 kg rather than 2500 grams. Other than that, though, I didn't mind the metric system so much. Also, as I noted earlier, the military (and therefore most reference works) uses the metric system. Traveller was an extremely para-military game, so using meters and kilometers felt right.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

<blink>

Read the last half dozen posts from Anthony. #45, 47, 52 and 55 particularly.

Aha. 47 is the only one in which Anthony suggested any kind of made up measurement: Encumbrance Units. I don't recall off the top of my head what TFT the battle game used for encumbrance, nor what TFT-ITL the RPG uses.

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Well, it seems that you've disclosed your real reason for wanting to keep the metric system.

My "real reason" that I have "disclosed" is entirely that TFT-ITL the RPG used metric units.

I am confident that Steve will be able to decide whether it's a good idea to use the system that most TFT players are most familiar with or to impose the metric system on them Because It's Good For Them.

If you can find a quote attributed to me containing anything like that, I'll own up to having said it. But the only reason I've disclosed in multiple messages on this thread, that I'm aware of, is that In The Labyrinth, the TFT roleplaying game, used them.

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Why not?

Because I see it as a pointless change.

Do you think many folks are TFT fans because it used the metric system?

I don't know. Lots of people have complained over the years about GURPS not being metric. Other than this thread I haven't heard anyone expressing any opinions either way about TFT being metric.

I'd be quite happy with Cidri continuing to be the world used in In The Labyrinth, the RPG, and for it to continue to use metric, simply because that's what it used originally.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

A point someone else brought out is that using a measurement system that has only existed since the mid-19th century destroys a fantasy game's verisimilitude (in addition to being more unfamiliar to most TFT players).

I disagree that it's unfamiliar to most TFT players.

According to Wikipedia, the metric system was first proposed in 1670, and first adopted in 1799.

For TFT, the battle game, I don't care. Hexes and turns, because that's what the original game used. For TFT In The Labyrinth, the roleplaying game, use metric, because that's what the original game used.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

A point someone else brought out is that using a measurement system that has only existed since the mid-19th century destroys a fantasy game's verisimilitude (in addition to being more unfamiliar to most TFT players).

US customary measures are not significantly older. They're based on a measurement system that's been around since the 11th century, but a bunch of units have come into or gone out of use, and the value of units has also changed.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

I am confident that Steve will be able to decide whether it's a good idea to use the system that most TFT players are most familiar with or to impose the metric system on them Because It's Good For Them.

Are you sure? He was after all apparently clueless enough to poke at this topic when he surely should have known it was going to explode from the debates shading into flame wars every time it come up about GURPS.

It's a fundamentally minor issue, particularly in the context of a game, that *always* generates para-religious fervor. In both directions. Really I think the best solution is always just pick one - it mostly doesn't matter which - and be prepared to ignore a small number of rabid complainers no matter which you selected. But nothing positive is ever going to come from drawing special attention to it by making it an issue for public debate.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

more unfamiliar to most TFT players

Perhaps you mean potential new TFT players? As opposed to the TFT players to date (who have already been exposed to the metric in ITL/AM anyway).

[ecz]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

(...)
I'd be quite happy with Cidri continuing to be the world used in In The Labyrinth, the RPG, and for it to continue to use metric, simply because that's what it used originally.

... that is what I said in my first post on page 1. I believe that this change would go against the philosophy behid the new-TFT project, assuming I have understood Steve's intents: improve & preserve the system i.e. makes only the changes necessary to improve the game.

1) the change does not improve the play, as eveything worked pretty well with the metric
2) the change mutates one of the traits of the orginal game