12-20-2011, 04:28 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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Nothing anywhere mentions any bonus for the presence of iron sights. Consequently, you can either suppose that there's a secret bonus that none of the GURPS coverage of firearms bothered to describe, or you can suppose that there is no such thing. The Tactical Shooting rules for what happens when iron sights are messed up strongly suggest that the iron sights are necessary for the Acc attribute of weapons which include them.
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12-20-2011, 04:48 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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Without denigrating the mental stress involved in shooting with intent to kill, it is at least logically possible that it is even more difficult to aim accurately when dealing with that mental stress in addition to the fact that you are being shot at. When you can rely, at least to a reasonable degree of certainty, that you will not take fire from the enemy during the turn that you are shooting and that there is no one friendly at risk from your fire or the enemy, I think you may qualify for a +1 to +2 TDM. This is supported by the vast difference in hit rates between sharpshooters in sniping situations and the same sharpshooters during firefights, for example. Also by statements by Carlos Hitchcock in One Shot, One Kill and multiple other snipers saying similar things. Obviously, the Line Editor calls what appears in the books, but it wouldn't be out of line for GMs who disagree with him to give a small bonus to ambushers and snipers who can be fairly certain that they will be able to take their shots without having to worry about threats to themselves (although they will be in danger after they shoot).
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12-20-2011, 05:34 PM | #33 | |||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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And if you must: Quote:
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If you want to be pedantic about it, you get +1 for acquiring a sight picture with your iron sights at all. This precludes your ability to dodge, and thus gives you what is effectively All-Out Attack. To use the iron sights carefully, taking a full second to line them up, is what gives the extra bonus equal to Acc. Braced gives you +1 for stability, but has nothing to do with sights (though it obviously helps hold them steady).
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12-20-2011, 05:39 PM | #34 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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I grant your point that if you know you're in a safe, well-concealed spot, a TDM might be appropriate. But Kromm's ruling, I think, is to prevent some guy from taking a bunch of fairly mild diads and claiming that he feels no compunction for human life, ever, and therefore gets a +7 bonus to all his shots, for free, increased to +10 because he alway carries a laser rangefinder, etc. The game-usual way to account for this is "buy more skill." Occasional TDMs representing best-case scenarios are far less problematic when they're occasional. If a bonus applies all the time, it should be bought as superior skill.
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12-20-2011, 06:09 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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12-20-2011, 06:52 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
The best arguments for iron sights being default is that there's no bonus listed for such sights.
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12-21-2011, 07:04 AM | #37 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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What, then, are your proposed bonuses for having iron sights included? Because ACC 5 is already very accurate, and will compensate for a large amount of distance, and virtually guarantee a good probability of hitting with aimed fire anywhere within 100 yards, even for a completely unskilled shooter. Why would simply looking down the barrel give this level of precision? The muskets don't have iron sights. This is because of the fact that smoothbore weapons have inherent deviances in flight profile at long range thanks to lack of stability. Therefore iron sights are almost unnecessary. Adding them wouldn't give enough benefit to even give +1, which is why nobody came up with the concept historically until firearms got accurate and precise enough over range to require some kind of sighting solution. ACC is an amalgamation of the weapon's basic accuracy bonus, from iron sights, recoil compensation, and other things that are weapon-side like how good a grip you can get on a weapon, how stable the round is in flight, etc etc. ACC assumes a weapon in it's complete, most basic configuration - which, for almost every rifle above TL4, includes a sight. You can add parts later to improve this, such as a reflex sight or telescopic sight. So if you ARE right, and a weapon doesn't come with any iron sights in the package, what DO you add to the weapon's base ACC with iron sights? Find that in the book somewhere, and you'll have proved your theory. Quote:
Sight pictures are kind of incidental to AoA, the lack of movement is more important. Even someone who's not Aiming is probably using the sights, he's probably just not paying any attention to the finer details of marksmanship and is making rapid snap shots. Just because you're doing that doesn't mean you're not using the sights. Tac shooting splits things up to give more definition as to what it is exactly that you're doing. Remember that GURPS assumes a lethal fight where everyone is moving, jerking around and probably flinching from sources of danger, or ducking in and out of cover, glancing up and down, etc. AoA's there so a fighter can get a bonus if he doesn't (or believes he doesn't) have to worry about that - or is counting on his luck, and really wants that guy dead.
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12-21-2011, 07:25 AM | #38 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
I have an (I hope) quick question about iron sights.
In my experience, peep/aperture sights are much easier to use and more accurate than V sights. Would GURPS call both kinds "Iron Sights", because the difference is under the system resolution?
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12-21-2011, 08:07 AM | #39 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
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12-21-2011, 08:19 AM | #40 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: First session -- Speed/Range Table questions
I'm confused. Do you mantain that this was the actual intention of the writers and that they simply forgot to actually state it or are you merely sharing your own house rule?
If the latter, I'm sure it won't harm anyone. If the former, that's offensive in its aggressive ignorance. Several people involved in Tactical Shooting have already stated what the intent was there, quoting rules to that effect.
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