The Morality of Playing Sapient Animals

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Seneschal

I really liked the idea of contextualizing predation so it feels as something other than cannibalism, and eliminating all human parallels, but it's really just too much work, and not that easy to immerse oneself in a world that operates under such alien rules. I can understand why someone wanting a light-hearted fantasy romp would be put off; it's like yearning for Dungeon Fantasy, and your GM serves you Transhuman Space.

Heh. And I thought that the whole point of looking at those issues seriously is the whole point. Otherwise I would expect it to look more like a fairy tale where the pig, the rabbit and the tigger go adventuring.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

A lot of people will happily play pirates but draw the line at slavers. Morally I don't see much difference, but I still get it. The ickiness of piracy is more intellectual than visceral. You have to stop and think about how horrible the things you are pretending to do actually are. With slavers there's a squick factor that doesn't apply to pirates.

Pirates are basically sea bandits. And I think a lot of players are willing to whack or bully a few foreigners and take their stuff.

I've heard of few cases where PCs would actually enslave/sell other sapients. One such PC was a Drow, and I don't think I can name anything specific about anyone else.

I suspect playing characters who endorse/accept slavery is more common. E.g. pretty much any default character in an Aztecs, Ancient Greece, Arabian Nights, 2100 USA etc.

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Anyone think thread surgery to split off the generic Evil Characters so that we can go about it without tangentificashioning the animal thread?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Pirates are basically sea bandits. And I think a lot of players are willing to whack or bully a few foreigners and take their stuff.

Except that they are also murderers, because the victims' ship is one of the things they take.


THE LAND BEFORE TIME series handled the problem by having the sympathetic, talking dinosaurs be herbivores who are menaced by the animalistic "sharpteeth". Though I recall their friend "Terry" was a Pteranosaur.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Except that they are also murderers, because the victims' ship is one of the things they take.

.

Not usually.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Yes, no doubt forumites can think of exceptions. I’m talking about common portrayals in RPGs and the sort of 19th and 20th Century literature that informs a lot of games. I mostly mean British and American sources.

I seem to have had girlfriends in times past who read rom novs in which slavers took heroines slave and then fell in love with them. Fortunately such S&M bodice-rippers and lightly-chintz-covered porn did not inform many games. Not many roleplaying games…. Not many of the kind of RPGs that we want to talk about here.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Brett

I seem to have had girlfriends in times past who read rom novs in which slavers took heroines slave and then fell in love with them. Fortunately such S&M bodice-rippers and lightly-chintz-covered porn did not inform many games. Not many roleplaying games…. Not many of the kind of RPGs that we want to talk about here.

I'm not surpirsed to learn that you dated naughty girls, you rascal!

:)

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Except that they are also murderers, because the victims' ship is one of the things they take.

And bandits aren't? It's not like whacking someone with a heavy stick (or a sword!) is safe. Likewise, some pirates would be affably evil if the crew doesn't resist, going so far as to leave the ship and crew alone after taking what they wanted. Valuables could greatly exceed the cost of the ship that carried them, right?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Slavers rarely get such treatment. At best they are businessmen in a rough, violent, unpleasant trade. At worst they are despicable, twisted scum bags. Sometimes they are looked down on even in slaveholding societies.

Yes, no doubt forumites can think of exceptions. I’m talking about common portrayals in RPGs and the sort of 19th and 20th Century literature that informs a lot of games. I mostly mean British and American sources.
Things may be different in Denmark…

The only time I encountered a portrayal of slavers with any sort of detail in an RPG, was in Fallout 2 (the CRPG, not the P&P one). Rough bunch, and joining them had nasty repercussions.

Now, slave-builders are are probably treated more ambiguously throughout the many settings (BSG, THS, Star Wars, Mass Effect, probably Exalted somewhere, the list likely goes on), and slave-makers (in the Brainwashing/Teaching sense) are a subject to blackly-comedic satire . . .

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Brett

I seem to have had girlfriends in times past who read rom novs in which slavers took heroines slave and then fell in love with them. Fortunately such S&M bodice-rippers and lightly-chintz-covered porn did not inform many games. Not many roleplaying games…. Not many of the kind of RPGs that we want to talk about here.

Does it count as the kind of RPGs we want to talk about if only one of the players in the party knows about those . . . moments . . . and the rest think of it as just yet another run-off-the-mill fantasy campaign?

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Going back to the original post, I've been thinking it over, and I don't think it's possible for intelligent animals to keep the standard predator-prey relationship. Things are going to change drastically when rabbits begin digging pit traps for foxes and hiring horses as bodyguards and foxes start ganging up on the horses. And if the animals also become anthropomorphic enough to handle tools in a human or near-human way all bets are off.

Note that intelligent predators likewise get an advantage out of their intelligence when hunting prey, but intelligent prey have a new way of reacting to danger that would change the dynamics of the relationship. Intelligent predators could decide to deliberately leave intelligent prey alone provided a safer alternative exists.


Hans