12-05-2017, 02:45 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
Pyramid #60 p.31 has the following advantage as Sword of Pure Magic:
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Partial Dices costa +-.3 dice per +-1 damage and .25 dice for 1 damage. If I take the 1 damage and buy two levels, I get 13*.25*2=6.5 or [7] If consider 0d +2 its 0.6 dices which gives 13*.6=7.8 or [8] This similar question mentions that in Magic 2pts damage gets .75 multiplier but it also doesn't work here: 13*.75=9.75 or [10] How did the author of the Pyramid come to [9]? Am I missing some ruling done in another book or Kromm posts? |
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12-05-2017, 03:08 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
Yay massive exploit builds (low base damage str-based innate attack is super-broken). My best guess is consecutive rounding:
7 (base cost) x .6 = 4.2, round to [5]. 5 points with a +80% net enhancement is [9]. |
12-05-2017, 03:18 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
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Now, why is this advantage super-broken? For a single extra point one could buy a Balanced Fine Thrusting Broadsword as Signature Gear, dealing more damage and giving +1 to ESL. The advantage of Pure Magic weapons seems to be that it doesn't have weight and don't break, which although definitely a plus, I wouldn't call broken. |
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12-05-2017, 03:29 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
It's not competing with carried weapons, it's competing with natural weapons, and (Swing/Cut, immune to Hurting Yourself, increased reach, can parry weapons without penalty) is a lot better than any form of Claws.
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12-05-2017, 09:05 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
The official ruling is that for anything above a fixed 1 point, you should use the "Adds to Dice" rule in reverse. For example, a fixed 2 points of damage is treated as 1d-2, and a fixed 7 points of damage is treated as 2d.
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12-07-2017, 01:59 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
Wouldn't that result in 1-(0.3*2)=.4 > 7*.4=2.8=[3] > [3]+80%=5.4=[6]?
So fixed 5 would be 2d-2, which gives: 7*1.4=9.8=[10] > [10]+70%=[17] Which is also off for the Great Axe of Pure Magic which is listed as [19] I took a look at the Innate Attack Calculator source and found the following: Code:
if (dmgDice == 0 && dmgBonus == 1) { dmgBonusPercent = .25; } else { dmgBonusPercent = .3 * dmgBonus; } Great Axe: 5*.3=1.5 > [7]*2.1=10.5=[11] > [11]+70%=18.7=[19] Halberd: 4*.3=1.2 > [5]*1.2=[6] > [6]+70%=10.2=[11] ... Now, is there a value for 0 damage Innate Attack? Say I want to make a Shortsword of Pure Magic (totally not trying to translate Blade of Grass to Sorcery), how would i go get Cutting Attack 0 (Magical, -10%; Melee Attack, Reach 1, -25%; ST-Based, +100%) point value? I'm inclined to say calculate as 1 point of damage and give it something like "Non Damaging, +0%". Last edited by Sorenant; 12-07-2017 at 02:03 PM. |
12-07-2017, 02:08 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
IMO, Sorenant, the best answer is "Ditch Innate Attack and use Natural Weapons," which also addresses Anthony's objection to how potentially abusive Innate Attack (ST-based) can be. It would require rebuilding those Weapons of Pure Magic, of course.
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12-07-2017, 02:40 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
I have some issues with Natural Weapons as well, but they're generally less broken. My best fix would be something like:
ST-Based (-80%). Your damage is the attack's rated damage, or your ST damage, whichever is less (this produces results consistent with the rules for modifying ST-base damage). That would change the cost of this power from [9] to [4] (for base damage) plus an additional 1.4 per die for max damage (for max ST 30, 5d+2 would cost [8]). |
12-07-2017, 03:09 PM | #9 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
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12-07-2017, 03:48 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Innate Attack: Fixed 2 damage cost?
It's a rework of how natural weapons function. I wouldn't consider it necessary.
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